Strike vote

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RidersRule
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Re: Strike vote

Post by RidersRule »

cloak wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:45 pm
PROC_HDG wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:48 am
cloak wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:39 pm neither is an arbitration ever going to be better than a negotiated agreement.
This is not accurate. In a situation like this where WJ is so far behind the industry standard and so consistently profitable, and the company has conducted themselves in such bad faith, arbitration could very well favour the pilot group.

PROC_HDG
An arbitrator is not going to look at one item and say yes min credits need to be increased,
They sure as hell cant be decreased...you know...since we have 0 synthetic block of any sort.
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RidersRule
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Re: Strike vote

Post by RidersRule »

cloak wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:45 pm
PROC_HDG wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:48 am
cloak wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:39 pm neither is an arbitration ever going to be better than a negotiated agreement.
This is not accurate. In a situation like this where WJ is so far behind the industry standard and so consistently profitable, and the company has conducted themselves in such bad faith, arbitration could very well favour the pilot group.

PROC_HDG
Exactly what is the proof that WJ is far behind industry standard? Facts seem to suggest otherwise.
What facts?
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Hozer
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Hozer »

RidersRule wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:21 pm
cloak wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:45 pm
PROC_HDG wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:48 am

This is not accurate. In a situation like this where WJ is so far behind the industry standard and so consistently profitable, and the company has conducted themselves in such bad faith, arbitration could very well favour the pilot group.

PROC_HDG
Exactly what is the proof that WJ is far behind industry standard? Facts seem to suggest otherwise.
What facts?

Wjpilotfacts.com !!!!! Then check out Yammer and the Hub for more “Truth”
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cloak
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Re: Strike vote

Post by cloak »

RidersRule wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:21 pm
cloak wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:45 pm
PROC_HDG wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:48 am

This is not accurate. In a situation like this where WJ is so far behind the industry standard and so consistently profitable, and the company has conducted themselves in such bad faith, arbitration could very well favour the pilot group.

PROC_HDG
Exactly what is the proof that WJ is far behind industry standard? Facts seem to suggest otherwise.
What facts?
Total compensation, including profit sharing, stock purchase plan and stock options.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Strike vote

Post by WeedPro2000 »

After three failed airlines, this company has given me continued employment for 15+ years. I was hired by WJ, and I am paid by WJ.

I did note vote for ALPA, I am not a member of ALPA. The law says I do not have to obey any orders ALPA issues to its members.

My loyalty resides completely and unequivocally with my employer. As such, I will be reporting for work each and every day that my employer requests I do so, regardless of ALPA’s position.

A word of caution to those who will disagree with my actions. The Respect in the Workplace policy at WJ is clear. If any employee attempts harassment against me and there is proof, the consequences include anything up to and including termination. Conduct yourself accordingly...
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lostaviator
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Re: Strike vote

Post by lostaviator »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:40 am After three failed airlines, this company has given me continued employment for 15+ years. I was hired by WJ, and I am paid by WJ.

I did note vote for ALPA, I am not a member of ALPA. The law says I do not have to obey any orders ALPA issues to its members.

My loyalty resides completely and unequivocally with my employer. As such, I will be reporting for work each and every day that my employer requests I do so, regardless of ALPA’s position.

A word of caution to those who will disagree with my actions. The Respect in the Workplace policy at WJ is clear. If any employee attempts harassment against me and there is proof, the consequences include anything up to and including termination. Conduct yourself accordingly...
JS, our positions/opinions are far apart but that’s the way life is. I have some Notley friends but I still have beer with them. Haha.

As a new(er) member of WestJet who came here wanting the same prosperous career you have had here, I’m hoping we can put all the guarded and pointed posts aside for a few moments and talk pilot to pilot.

The current path being taken by wj managemnt is the end game of my career here at WJ. 10 tails going to Swoop is just the beginning. I haven’t been here long enough to survive another 20. Layoffs will come at one point in time.

Go back 15ish Years (I forget how long you’ve been here), what would the taste in your mouth be? I am working for the company I’ve always wanted to and now, boom. My future is gone/fading VERY fast.

Secondly, are you ok with new co-workers facing this path? We all have a little selfish side to us but at the end of the day, I do care about the lively hoods of everyone I work with.

Cheers
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lostaviator
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Re: Strike vote

Post by lostaviator »

cloak wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:39 pm
lostaviator wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:57 am ...
"Swoop won't replace WestJet flying" they said.
Replace = "take place of".
Look up YXX-YWG this summer and see who's flying it. Swoop is replacing Westjet flying.
...
Although it cannot always be taken too literally, meaning one has to consider the total aggregate. While one route might be given to Swoop because of better suitability, others will likely be added elsewhere.

And speaking of office people, keep in mind if there is no flying some of the other folks will not have much to do and likely will be furloughed...Strike is almost never a good thing, neither is an arbitration ever going to be better than a negotiated agreement.
The end result of the current path is hundreds of unemployed people. Swoop is growing more than they ever said and the plans for it are aggressive. WestJet will shrink.

If I’m going to be unemployed in the future, I’d rather take two weeks without pay right now to defend my future job.
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RidersRule
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Re: Strike vote

Post by RidersRule »

cloak wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:05 am
RidersRule wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:21 pm
cloak wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:45 pm

Exactly what is the proof that WJ is far behind industry standard? Facts seem to suggest otherwise.
What facts?
Total compensation, including profit sharing, stock purchase plan and stock options.
Oh. I didn't realize there was facts on that page comparing us to other companies. I'll have to have another look...
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mbav8r
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Re: Strike vote

Post by mbav8r »

RidersRule wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:26 am [quote=cloak post_id=<a href="tel:1038224">1038224</a> time=<a href="tel:1524985514">1524985514</a> user_id=57745]
[quote=RidersRule post_id=<a href="tel:1038158">1038158</a> time=<a href="tel:1524896472">1524896472</a> user_id=3739]
[quote=cloak post_id=<a href="tel:1038147">1038147</a> time=<a href="tel:1524883557">1524883557</a> user_id=57745]


Exactly what is the proof that WJ is far behind industry standard? Facts seem to suggest otherwise.
What facts?
Total compensation, including profit sharing, stock purchase plan and stock options.
[/quote]

Oh. I didn't realize there was facts on that page comparing us to other companies. I'll have to have another look...
[/quote][/quote]
I’m very curious, how does the above mentioned profit sharing and stock purchase compare to AC profit sharing and stock purchase(ESOP) program, also AC has an actual pension plan. How would your retirement scheme compare to AC? Comparing total compensation is that, compare total compensation. AC pays 100% of the benefits, so I’m thinking you’re behind industry standard unless you’re comparing bottom feeders like Flair which is small potatoes at this point.
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atphat
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Re: Strike vote

Post by atphat »

Yes he is wrong of course. WJ total package doesn’t compare to AC total package. Especially if you factor in YOS.

WJ isn’t a bad gig but to say it’s above industry standard is a joke.

I would assume he’s just trolling in that I would assume all WJ pilots have at least 1 buddy at AC and know the difference. Or at least know a guy that knows a guy.
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Legacy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Legacy »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:40 am After three failed airlines, this company has given me continued employment for 15+ years. I was hired by WJ, and I am paid by WJ.

I did note vote for ALPA, I am not a member of ALPA. The law says I do not have to obey any orders ALPA issues to its members.

My loyalty resides completely and unequivocally with my employer. As such, I will be reporting for work each and every day that my employer requests I do so, regardless of ALPA’s position.

A word of caution to those who will disagree with my actions. The Respect in the Workplace policy at WJ is clear. If any employee attempts harassment against me and there is proof, the consequences include anything up to and including termination. Conduct yourself accordingly...
John that almost sounds like a threat to your fellow employees. That's considered harassment. Better watch what you say.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Strike vote

Post by WeedPro2000 »

Privileged White Men Take Corporation and Customers Hostage
Sorry, gentlemen. One cannot have much sympathy for your demands. Especially not in view of the chutzpah with which you've been trying to push them through. A very small number of very well-paid white men will make life difficult for a very large number of airline passengers, because they're really only interested in their own advantage. The pilots don't want to negotiate anymore, and certainly don't want to submit their wage dispute to independent arbitration. No, they'd rather expose their own employer to financial and reputational harm, and expose WestJet clients to the sort of inconveniences associated with getting stranded in airports when you've got to be at an important meeting the next day.
The above is an article that could be written by a reporter in today's woke environment. Unions resort to the violent action of a strike, hoping to win sympathy with a company's customers and and force the company to capitulate to union demands in the face of punishing financial losses. The latest talking point being spread by ALPA's members at WJ, and I've heard this personally, is that a strike vote is "just part of the negotiation process". That's possible, I suppose. Vereinigung Cockpit, Lufthansa's pilot union, went on strike 14 times in 3 years (2014-2016). That was quite a process.

Regarding the quoted passage above, here's the actual article that appeared on Germany's DW website, regarding the Lufthansa pilots:

Opinion: Lufthansa's pilots are overreaching

Frequent strikes by Lufthansa's privileged pilots amount to a form of blackmail against passengers, and harm the company that already pays them extremely well, says DW's Manuela Kasper-Claridge.

At this moment, thousands of Lufthansa airline passengers are waiting at airports in Germany or elsewhere in the world, hoping their flight will leave as scheduled, so they can get on with their lives. But today, Lufthansa's Airbuses won't be flying - because highly-paid German pilots are once again on strike. The reason: The pilots' union, Vereinigung Cockpit, is of the opinion that an average annual salary of 180,000 euros is simply not enough. With their series of strikes - today's is the 14th in the union's ongoing wage-bargaining dispute with management, which began two and a half years ago - these high-flying luxury pilots appear to be doing everything they can to ruin the airline they work for.

Stormy international competition

Although pilots famously need to have 20-20 vision to qualify for their jobs, it seems these gentlemen flight-captains - very few of them are ladies, after all - are having trouble seeing the world with clear eyes. The fact that the financial air is getting ever thinner for their employer Lufthansa seems to have escaped them entirely. Competition in international aviation is not only rough; it's stormy. Low-cost airlines and the state-subsidized companies of the Persian Gulf are taking business away from unsubsidized established airlines such as Lufthansa. The German airline is one of the most expensive in terms of ticket prices, not least because it carries a lot of baggage on its balance sheet. One of the most important pieces of baggage is composed of a roster fat with highly privileged aircraft operators with extremely generous contracts stemming from a time when there was less competition. Their salary and benefit packages can reach 300,000 euros per annum, and flight captains can retire at ages as young as 55 - 12 years younger than the normal German retirement age. Lufthansa pilots are among the best-paid in the industry. Congratulations!

And now, we passengers are supposed to feel solidarity for these poor dear Lufthansa pilots - because they'd really like to have a little more pay. Twenty percent more, to be precise. That's not a disproportionate demand in a difficult market environment, according to their union. After all, Lufthansa has lately made billions in net revenues. What's left unsaid is that rather a lot of that money is earmarked for the modernization of the company's fleet.

Abstruse demands

Sorry, gentlemen. One cannot have much sympathy for your demands. Especially not in view of the chutzpah with which you've been trying to push them through. A very small number of very well-paid men are making life difficult for a very large number of airline passengers, because they're really only interested in their own advantage. The pilots don't want to negotiate anymore, and certainly don't want to submit their wage dispute to independent arbitration. No, they'd rather expose their own employer to financial and reputational harm, and expose Lufthansa's clients to the sort of inconveniences associated with getting stranded in foreign airports when you've got to be at an important meeting on another continent the next day.

All over the world, each time the pilots stage one of their strikes, people have to reschedule meetings or holidays, sort out delays, and apologize to inconvenienced business associates, friends or relatives. The people affected face a choice: They can thank the pilots and send a note of solidarity to the Lufthansa pilots' union, or they can resolve to fly with a different airline next time - maybe with one of the discount airlines, like Ryanair, whose captains earn a base rate of 62,000 euros a year. The discount airlines' jets aren't as comfortable as Lufthansa's airliners, but they generally leave on time.

************************************************************************************************************************
Another point of view expressed by ALPA proponents at WJ is that there is no way that the company will allow the airplanes to sit idle and lose millions per day as a result of a strike. That is possible, though it may came as the result of government intervention. And if it does come to pass that airplanes do sit idle, what is the union's fall back plan if the company does not capitulate, but rather starts layoffs among the rest of the company's employees instead, and tries to break the resolve of union members? Or locks out union members on the 19th?

I don't know the answers to the above questions. I do know that when was was declared in Ahugust 1914 between Great Britain and Germany, there was cheering in the streets as most thought the war would be over by Christmas.

I do hope that all ALPA members will think with clear heads on the possible repercussions against the pilot group. I wonder if the C.O.B (C.B.) will use the opportunity of a strike vote to extract maximum punishment from the pilot group on May 19 so as to serve as a warning to the other employee groups within WJ. Time will tell.
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Bede
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:40 am After three failed airlines, this company has given me continued employment for 15+ years. I was hired by WJ, and I am paid by WJ.

I did note vote for ALPA, I am not a member of ALPA. The law says I do not have to obey any orders ALPA issues to its members.

My loyalty resides completely and unequivocally with my employer. As such, I will be reporting for work each and every day that my employer requests I do so, regardless of ALPA’s position.

A word of caution to those who will disagree with my actions. The Respect in the Workplace policy at WJ is clear. If any employee attempts harassment against me and there is proof, the consequences include anything up to and including termination. Conduct yourself accordingly...
Hi John,

I respect your loyalty but I'd like your opinion on the latest info. According to the recent meetings, the company is proposing reserve, 19 days work, no OT until 87.5hrs. This would mean that your days of huge T4's would be all but over. This is the return on loyalty that the company is giving you. It seems like an awfully one sided relationship- you defend them at the cost of your relationship with your colleagues and in return they want to cut your wages. Would you agree that voting NO would only encourage management getting these concessions from us?
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truedude
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Re: Strike vote

Post by truedude »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:22 am Privileged White Men Take Corporation and Customers Hostage
Sorry, gentlemen. One cannot have much sympathy for your demands. Especially not in view of the chutzpah with which you've been trying to push them through. A very small number of very well-paid white men will make life difficult for a very large number of airline passengers, because they're really only interested in their own advantage. The pilots don't want to negotiate anymore, and certainly don't want to submit their wage dispute to independent arbitration. No, they'd rather expose their own employer to financial and reputational harm, and expose WestJet clients to the sort of inconveniences associated with getting stranded in airports when you've got to be at an important meeting the next day.
The above is an article that could be written by a reporter in today's woke environment. Unions resort to the violent action of a strike, hoping to win sympathy with a company's customers and and force the company to capitulate to union demands in the face of punishing financial losses. The latest talking point being spread by ALPA's members at WJ, and I've heard this personally, is that a strike vote is "just part of the negotiation process". That's possible, I suppose. Vereinigung Cockpit, Lufthansa's pilot union, went on strike 14 times in 3 years (2014-2016). That was quite a process.

Regarding the quoted passage above, here's the actual article that appeared on Germany's DW website, regarding the Lufthansa pilots:

Opinion: Lufthansa's pilots are overreaching

Frequent strikes by Lufthansa's privileged pilots amount to a form of blackmail against passengers, and harm the company that already pays them extremely well, says DW's Manuela Kasper-Claridge.

At this moment, thousands of Lufthansa airline passengers are waiting at airports in Germany or elsewhere in the world, hoping their flight will leave as scheduled, so they can get on with their lives. But today, Lufthansa's Airbuses won't be flying - because highly-paid German pilots are once again on strike. The reason: The pilots' union, Vereinigung Cockpit, is of the opinion that an average annual salary of 180,000 euros is simply not enough. With their series of strikes - today's is the 14th in the union's ongoing wage-bargaining dispute with management, which began two and a half years ago - these high-flying luxury pilots appear to be doing everything they can to ruin the airline they work for.

Stormy international competition

Although pilots famously need to have 20-20 vision to qualify for their jobs, it seems these gentlemen flight-captains - very few of them are ladies, after all - are having trouble seeing the world with clear eyes. The fact that the financial air is getting ever thinner for their employer Lufthansa seems to have escaped them entirely. Competition in international aviation is not only rough; it's stormy. Low-cost airlines and the state-subsidized companies of the Persian Gulf are taking business away from unsubsidized established airlines such as Lufthansa. The German airline is one of the most expensive in terms of ticket prices, not least because it carries a lot of baggage on its balance sheet. One of the most important pieces of baggage is composed of a roster fat with highly privileged aircraft operators with extremely generous contracts stemming from a time when there was less competition. Their salary and benefit packages can reach 300,000 euros per annum, and flight captains can retire at ages as young as 55 - 12 years younger than the normal German retirement age. Lufthansa pilots are among the best-paid in the industry. Congratulations!

And now, we passengers are supposed to feel solidarity for these poor dear Lufthansa pilots - because they'd really like to have a little more pay. Twenty percent more, to be precise. That's not a disproportionate demand in a difficult market environment, according to their union. After all, Lufthansa has lately made billions in net revenues. What's left unsaid is that rather a lot of that money is earmarked for the modernization of the company's fleet.

Abstruse demands

Sorry, gentlemen. One cannot have much sympathy for your demands. Especially not in view of the chutzpah with which you've been trying to push them through. A very small number of very well-paid men are making life difficult for a very large number of airline passengers, because they're really only interested in their own advantage. The pilots don't want to negotiate anymore, and certainly don't want to submit their wage dispute to independent arbitration. No, they'd rather expose their own employer to financial and reputational harm, and expose Lufthansa's clients to the sort of inconveniences associated with getting stranded in foreign airports when you've got to be at an important meeting on another continent the next day.

All over the world, each time the pilots stage one of their strikes, people have to reschedule meetings or holidays, sort out delays, and apologize to inconvenienced business associates, friends or relatives. The people affected face a choice: They can thank the pilots and send a note of solidarity to the Lufthansa pilots' union, or they can resolve to fly with a different airline next time - maybe with one of the discount airlines, like Ryanair, whose captains earn a base rate of 62,000 euros a year. The discount airlines' jets aren't as comfortable as Lufthansa's airliners, but they generally leave on time.

************************************************************************************************************************
Another point of view expressed by ALPA proponents at WJ is that there is no way that the company will allow the airplanes to sit idle and lose millions per day as a result of a strike. That is possible, though it may came as the result of government intervention. And if it does come to pass that airplanes do sit idle, what is the union's fall back plan if the company does not capitulate, but rather starts layoffs among the rest of the company's employees instead, and tries to break the resolve of union members? Or locks out union members on the 19th?

I don't know the answers to the above questions. I do know that when was was declared in Ahugust 1914 between Great Britain and Germany, there was cheering in the streets as most thought the war would be over by Christmas.

I do hope that all ALPA members will think with clear heads on the possible repercussions against the pilot group. I wonder if the C.O.B (C.B.) will use the opportunity of a strike vote to extract maximum punishment from the pilot group on May 19 so as to serve as a warning to the other employee groups within WJ. Time will tell.
You are just such a tool!
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

Legacy wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:43 am
WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:40 am After three failed airlines, this company has given me continued employment for 15+ years. I was hired by WJ, and I am paid by WJ.

I did note vote for ALPA, I am not a member of ALPA. The law says I do not have to obey any orders ALPA issues to its members.

My loyalty resides completely and unequivocally with my employer. As such, I will be reporting for work each and every day that my employer requests I do so, regardless of ALPA’s position.

A word of caution to those who will disagree with my actions. The Respect in the Workplace policy at WJ is clear. If any employee attempts harassment against me and there is proof, the consequences include anything up to and including termination. Conduct yourself accordingly...
John that almost sounds like a threat to your fellow employees. That's considered harassment. Better watch what you say.
It go’s both ways John.
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

Bede wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:31 am
WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:40 am After three failed airlines, this company has given me continued employment for 15+ years. I was hired by WJ, and I am paid by WJ.

I did note vote for ALPA, I am not a member of ALPA. The law says I do not have to obey any orders ALPA issues to its members.

My loyalty resides completely and unequivocally with my employer. As such, I will be reporting for work each and every day that my employer requests I do so, regardless of ALPA’s position.

A word of caution to those who will disagree with my actions. The Respect in the Workplace policy at WJ is clear. If any employee attempts harassment against me and there is proof, the consequences include anything up to and including termination. Conduct yourself accordingly...
Hi John,

I respect your loyalty but I'd like your opinion on the latest info. According to the recent meetings, the company is proposing reserve, 19 days work, no OT until 87.5hrs. This would mean that your days of huge T4's would be all but over. This is the return on loyalty that the company is giving you. It seems like an awfully one sided relationship- you defend them at the cost of your relationship with your colleagues and in return they want to cut your wages. Would you agree that voting NO would only encourage management getting these concessions from us?
I would like an answer to the above post as well John. Maybe it’s time to come to terms your “employer” is not acting in good faith to the employees.

Aren’t we suppose to be “people powered” at Westjet?
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Legacy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Legacy »

Bede, he is only loyal to one and that's himself. I don't respect a bloody word he says. So self absorbed it's not funny. Probably hasn't donated a single dime or minute to a charity in his life. Oh didn't he say he has interviews with Asian companies? Yeah loyal to WJ he is.
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Demeter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

U mean loyal like CT and TP in our mec applying to AC?
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atphat
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Re: Strike vote

Post by atphat »

Demeter wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:21 pm U mean loyal like CT and TP in our mec applying to AC?
It's pretty sad you think that would matter.
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FenceSitter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by FenceSitter »

That is most definitely a threat to use the company's policy against a fellow employee. If John isn't reported then that's on you all. Him and his rubbish threats are going to damage someone else's career. Stop him before he does what he is very capable and likely to do.
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