Is it true?

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land3
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Is it true?

Post by land3 »

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/ ... -1.3898538

Scuttlebutt at coffee claims that this individual had received somewhat of a large settlement upon leaving the company...is this fact?
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: Is it true?

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

Not sure if she received a settlement but harassment in the work place unfortunately still occurs.

I wish her all the best. This aviator’s resume reads well and I am not inclined to believe that her claims are unfounded. I don’t see a reason why she should be accused of crying wolf what so ever...

All the best,

TPC
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WF9F
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Re: Is it true?

Post by WF9F »

What an absolute load off BS...
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Stu Pidasso
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Re: Is it true?

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Believe NOTHING in this article......we will have to leave it at that!
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snowcone
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Re: Is it true?

Post by snowcone »

Many flaws....
1) Air Canada does not employ second officers nor does any airline use a SO to fly yyz to fll.

2) signatures are not required on a flight plan.
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confusedalot
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Re: Is it true?

Post by confusedalot »

Admittedly speed read the article but wait a minute...............she had a 37 year career at the airline? Sooo.....what exactly is the issue at hand? I only had a 36 year aviation career and I started young, and yes, I am a male. Never did big red.

As I understand the article, a cockpit dispute between the captain and the second officer about minimum fuel arised. Sounds like the second officer lost the dispute. Can't say who was right or who was wrong of course, but can someone shed some light on why the person putting in the complaint had a 37 year career, most definitively in the first officer seat and most probably in the captain seat?

Confusedalot is very confused..............

One person comes to mind; a female who was captain and check pilot in very big jets with a hugely great reputation for competence and fairness who I know well, but not at big red.
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RVR6000
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Re: Is it true?

Post by RVR6000 »

Article is full of inaccuracies.

Captain isn’t the only person satisfied with the fuel load, the dispatcher who puts its together is also on the same page as the captain in terms of fuel. AC has a great system in place for FO, they can bid to avoid captains they don’t get along with and the system works great.

She resigned at her own will. 5 years after the fact the story comes out, to me it’s looks like someone regretting her own decisions.
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gasbag1
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Re: Is it true?

Post by gasbag1 »

I am not privy to Ms. Clegg's motives but I am sure money is a big one. Clegg has always confused personality conflicts with harassment, I was there when she was first hired at Canadian and she always felt hard done by. Subsequent years she may have had a hard time with some Captains but any of us who never had that problem in our career are likely about zero. When I was hired CRM were just 3 letters, however if you did not want to fly with this person you used the bidding system to avoid those Captains. As for systematic harassment that is a great exaggeration on her part, a few individuals maybe, systematic???
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islandguy
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Re: Is it true?

Post by islandguy »

confusedalot wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:57 pm
Admittedly speed read the article but wait a minute...............she had a 37 year career at the airline?
Not quite. Judy Cameron, who also worked at Air Canada for 37 years, was approached for a comment on this case, and provided one. The pilot in question undoubtedly had a shorter career.

You don't have to go back much further than a few years to find guys hiding photos of scantily clad women in the flight decks of certain Air Canada fleets. Don't think you'd have to look too hard to find ongoing issues with harassment. That said, the way this article was written, some of the facts can certainly be disputed. I think I'd first suspect the author of not understanding what he was writing.

The assertion that bid-to-avoid is an inherently victim blaming system seems a bit of a stretch, but hey—I guess that's what these tribunals are supposed to investigate. I'll look forward to reading the conclusion of this particular affair when it comes out.
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altiplano
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Re: Is it true?

Post by altiplano »

Pilot quit without any complaint lodged.

Pilot realized it was a mistake.

Pilot tried to get their job back.

Pilot is told No.

Pilot files human rights case to achieve what they want.

It's really pretty simple... it wasn't a human rights problem until they can't get what they want.
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Stu Pidasso
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Re: Is it true?

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Cash payout was always the end game, it was 5 years in the works. Waiting, gathering, timing the case.

This is an insult to any legitimate Harassment and does nothing for the cause of Female Pilots.
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Inverted2
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Re: Is it true?

Post by Inverted2 »

Nothing wrong with being an opportunist. The “me too” movement is really trendy right now. It is perfect timing to launch a sexual harassment case.
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land3
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Re: Is it true?

Post by land3 »

Judy, Gwen and Glenys would have sucked it up, dropped the gloves and gave back more than they got.

How times have changed in the “me too” generation.
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snowcone
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Re: Is it true?

Post by snowcone »

islandguy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:06 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:57 pm
Admittedly speed read the article but wait a minute...............she had a 37 year career at the airline?
Not quite. Judy Cameron, who also worked at Air Canada for 37 years, was approached for a comment on this case, and provided one. The pilot in question undoubtedly had a shorter career.

You don't have to go back much further than a few years to find guys hiding photos of scantily clad women in the flight decks of certain Air Canada fleets. Don't think you'd have to look too hard to find ongoing issues with harassment. That said, the way this article was written, some of the facts can certainly be disputed. I think I'd first suspect the author of not understanding what he was writing.

The assertion that bid-to-avoid is an inherently victim blaming system seems a bit of a stretch, but hey—I guess that's what these tribunals are supposed to investigate. I'll look forward to reading the conclusion of this particular affair when it comes out.
By scanity clad, my friend on the 190 tells me it was nothing more than what you see in the shops at the mall or in the walmart flyer. So all off a sudden a picture of a woman in a swim suit is harassment?
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islandguy
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Re: Is it true?

Post by islandguy »

snowcone wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 1:30 pm
By scanity clad, my friend on the 190 tells me it was nothing more than what you see in the shops at the mall or in the walmart flyer. So all off a sudden a picture of a woman in a swim suit is harassment?
By any reasonable modern definition, emphatically yes. I'd recommend you peruse whatever material you can find on this topic.
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Bede
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Re: Is it true?

Post by Bede »

islandguy wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:10 am
By any reasonable modern definition, emphatically yes. I'd recommend you peruse whatever material you can find on this topic.
Inappropriate picture in women's magazine: empowered feminism
http://www.dailyedge.ie/cosmopolitan-ol ... 2-Aug2016/

Inappropriate picture found in workplace: sexual harassment.
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islandguy
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Re: Is it true?

Post by islandguy »

Indeed, as you point out, it's all highly contextual based on location and intent.

I'll not belabour the point, though. All the reference anyone should need is right there in their employee handbook or HR guidelines. Follow those, and you're good.
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altiplano
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Re: Is it true?

Post by altiplano »

Below is what I've been told, from people who have knowledge and experience with both individuals in this case:

I understand it was originally an argument about extra fuel, and a Captain putting an FO in their place about ordering extra fuel before consulting him.

The FO didn't like it, complained to a manager, and was reassigned to another pairing, even told they didn't have to fly again with that Captain if they didn't want to... However, upon not using their bid properly and coming across same Captain in their schedule again, some years later, they were told they could drop the pairing and pick up a different trip... not good enough - the FO quit...

This FO complained about the conflict with this Captain only the once and it was dealt with, they never lodged a complaint, wether about other pilots they worked with our about sexism or systemic misogyny or anything else in fact...

In fact the only thing systemic at all here was the FO arriving early and always calling for another ton of fuel on top of the original dispatch flight plan fuel before the Captain arrived at flight planning.

Now, they regret the decision and are denied their old position, their old seniority slot... Now comes the accusations... bring in the Human Rights Panelists...

This is just what I have heard, and it is heresay, some may call it victim blaming, but I think I believe the sources I've heard from... and I don't see any of AC's female pilots - current or past - confirming the allegations of widespread problems, in fact the very first one, who spent 40 some years at AC refutes it...

The Emb case involved 2 people and magazine (not porn) clippings, and a sensitive person who saw an opportunity, took a million and ran... It was isolated and obviously dealt with.
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confusedalot
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Re: Is it true?

Post by confusedalot »

Flew with an australian fella who always wanted 2 tons more fuel for no particular reason, over and above a generous load, so I get that.

The Emj thing, much more than just a few innocent and non violent clippings. But that would be thread drift.
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Stu Pidasso
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Re: Is it true?

Post by Stu Pidasso »

The EMJ Piece was childish, but took on a life of its own. It was targeted at a Little Brown Nosing Captain, trying to weasel ....HIM....self into management. Just happened to be an opportunistic Female F/O who Cashed in....and checked out.
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confusedalot
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Re: Is it true?

Post by confusedalot »

Hmmm.......

First of, I am a male. Second, don't work for big red. So let's get that out of the way. So that means I would not be prone to get all out of joint because of some silly naked lady clipping.


The emj thing was more than that. Saw it myself, and hey, it was my partner who found the stuff, in planes transferred out of the fleet. I really did not need to know or see that.

I am finding it difficult to believe that a female would take a million, which is not a whole lot of money anymore, in exchange for leaving a career that pays ten times more than that over time. That would be height of stupidity.
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Re: Is it true?

Post by yycflyguy »

confusedalot wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:17 pm
Hmmm.......

First of, I am a male. Second, don't work for big red. So let's get that out of the way. So that means I would not be prone to get all out of joint because of some silly naked lady clipping.


The emj thing was more than that. Saw it myself, and hey, it was my partner who found the stuff, in planes transferred out of the fleet. I really did not need to know or see that.

I am finding it difficult to believe that a female would take a million, which is not a whole lot of money anymore, in exchange for leaving a career that pays ten times more than that over time. That would be height of stupidity.
10 million over a career? I want to work there, please! That would be one charmed career. Most are hired in their mid thirties now. 25 years at the company. First 5 nets you $350k. Next 10 realistically gets you $1.5 million as a WB FO. Next 5 gets you $1.0 as NB CA. Last 5 gets you $1.5 as a WB CA = ~$4.35 million over a 25 year career. BEFORE TAX.

The traumatized sexually harassed pilot got a settlement of 20 years at Airbus CA rate or around $3.2 million. Plus she will have 25 years income in another career, if she chooses. Sounds smart to me.

BTW. You had to search for the questionable FD material. Know where they were. They were not in plane sight. No condoning what happened but also agree that this was an opportunistic situation that was fully exploited. 2 "wrongs" made a "right" in this case.
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Victory
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Re: Is it true?

Post by Victory »

Except you can be NB Captain in a year or two not 10.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Is it true?

Post by yycflyguy »

Victory wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:52 am
Except you can be NB Captain in a year or two not 10.
Today, yes. Back then, not so easy. Even if you go CA NB (It pays pretty close to WB FO) after year 2, you can add another $150k-$200k pre tax to my total.... still not even half of the $10 million that was quoted.
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land3
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Re: Is it true?

Post by land3 »

The traumatized sexually harassed pilot got a settlement of 20 years at Airbus CA rate or around $3.2 million.
Well there you go ......finally got my question answered! As suspected....wow!
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