Westjet mainline commuting

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tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

If you're willing to drive occasionally you could easily make YYC-YEG commute work. If you had multiple one day parings though you'd want a crash pad i would guess.

YYC-YHM would not be viable unless you're willing to spend most of the month away. We have guys that live 2 hours from the airport here in YHM so that's about the same as commuting by road YYC to YEG. It's commutable, no worse than the guys at 5T that commute between YYC and YEG as they have mostly one day pairings as well with early starts
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jjj
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by jjj »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:02 am
MrTurbine wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:32 pm
KAG wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:12 pm I dare say that will change pretty quick. As more westjet pilots flood into those positions, that will be a priority. Its also in managements best interest to turn this into a lifestyle job to help attract and retain pilots.
Quite honestly I’m not trying to stir the pot. But, do you think it’s possible that flying for a Canadian ulcc to become more of a lifestyle job, at least anytime in the next five years?

What I mean to say is, if flair can treat its pilots like dirt, why wouldn’t swoop do the same?
I know the CBA is going to make swoop conditions better, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be that drastic. Having said that, for the sake of a few friends who just bit for spots there, I really hope I’m wrong.
But commuter friendly, I definitely don’t think that going to change that much, considering the amount of money they are saving on hotel costs by just have 1 and 2 day pairings. If you life in YEG or YHM, it’s the family mans dream to be home every night.
Right now it's absolutely a lifestyle job. None of us feel like we're being treated like dirt by Swoop. Most of our pairings are out and backs with some very efficient flying. That's probably going to continue to be the case moving forward out of YHM. I suspect the YEG base may fly more sectors due to the YEG-YXX route.

The average stage length is over 1300 miles and is forecast to continue moving forward. There is no YYZ-YUL-YOW triangle mess to deal with and the airports we do operate out of are low density so operational delays are minimized. On a strictly flying point of view we don't work nearly as hard as the mainline guys do. We've hashed out the pay/compensation issues vs mainline ad nauseam, but if you can live with Sunwing hourly rates plus profit/share and the 10% ESPP vs mainlines 20% it's a good place to be if you like being home most nights and working 15 days a month.
Seeing as there is no indexing - calling Swoop hourly rates the same as Sunwing hourly rates is a stretch if not a lie.

Been a long day so I'll not bother talking about the minimum guarantees at Sunwing vs Swoop.

Call it what it is - Swoop pay is crap but don't worry - the WestJet pilots will fix that in time.

JJJ
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tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

I don't think Swoop needs the type of "fixing" we've just all witnessed over the last few months.
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Transonic
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Transonic »

After 14 days of operations, it's a bit presumptuous to determine what the schedule will be like.

The flying is constantly evolving over the next few months. As an example, the high credit YHM-YXX turn will become a red eye mid September.

Swoop and WestJet are a common employer so although it feels like a seperate airline now, by the end of the summer it won't. It will be another type/base bid under the WestJet CBA. Even the pilot uniforms may change.

The MEC is confident that Swoop rates will be close to mainline rates, if not the same. The same goes for working conditions but it sounds that those may differ by a larger degree than pay. One of WestJet's offers during negotiations was pay parity so that will likely weigh into the arbitrators decision.

Although messy we hope by September it will be all erased. The only remnants will be the Q2 loss, our first loss in 53 quarters.
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GAF
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by GAF »

tbaylx wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:06 am I don't think Swoop needs the type of "fixing" we've just all witnessed over the last few months.


Somewhat arrogant comment of you. That statement alone shows you have no idea of what was happening behind the scenes.
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Oscar
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Oscar »

tbaylx wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:23 am If you're willing to drive occasionally you could easily make YYC-YEG commute work. If you had multiple one day parings though you'd want a crash pad i would guess.
How's the commute going to work when you slide to the right seat Q400?
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Anticyclone
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Anticyclone »

Guys why don't we stop barking at each other the white collars with the 6-7 digits salary love this division, as flyboys we all want the same thing so we need to show unity, strenth and construtive work.
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Hangry
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Hangry »

How can there be unity when an OTS troll who took advantage of a labour dispute is sitting left seat in a freshly painted tail designed to crush the unity of the pilot group.

The white collars do love it though. Too bad pilots always have to hand it to them on a platter undercutting one another.
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tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

Hangry wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:02 am How can there be unity when an OTS troll who took advantage of a labour dispute is sitting left seat in a freshly painted tail designed to crush the unity of the pilot group.

The white collars do love it though. Too bad pilots always have to hand it to them on a platter undercutting one another.
You’ve lost any credibility in passing judgements on others.

Personal attacks, harassing pilots via social media, text and phone calls, threats against pilots families, recruitment bans, cat calls over the radio on ATC frequencies, flipping off other pilots as they taxi by, searching through social media for things to report to corporate security are just some of the things you have managed to justify and pull off over the last few months. I’d be embarrassed about the conduct of my peers if I were you and spend some time thinking about your own conduct before commenting on anyone else.
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jjj
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by jjj »

With exception of the hiring ban which came first - the list above is frankly unacceptable. The response has been over the top but understandable.

Tbalx - you’re calling out the conduct of others yet seem to believe that your own conduct somehow beyond reproach.

You pissed in people’s cornflakes and they’re mad. Now you have the luxury of standing behind a conduct in the workplace policy as well as a union to defend you. The irony of the situation seems to be lost on you.

JJJ
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Last edited by jjj on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

jjj wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:10 pm With exception of the hiring ban which came first - the list above is frankly unacceptable.

Tbalx - you’re calling out the conduct of others yet seem to believe that your own conduct somehow doesn’t matter. You and your kind have behaved far from exemplary.

You pissed in people’s cornflakes and they’re mad.

JJJ
I've never once made a personal attack against anyone despite taking lots in return. I get that they're mad and disagree with us and that's fine, but there is no excuse for conducting yourself unprofessionally and I try to keep that in mind with my posts on here. If I've at any time acted unprofessionally in my responses then i regret that, but I'm fairly confident I've never personally attacked anyone.

Think we aren't mad at some of the stuff thrown our way? Yet you don't see any of the Swoop OTS guys making personal threats or gloating or acting like children who didn't get their way. You can can have a difference of opinion and still act like an adult. There are plenty of pros at Westjet that do just that.
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jjj
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by jjj »

Walking in off the street during a hiring ban in the middle of a labour dispute to circumvent the existing queue is a personal attack.

We’ve been discussing it for months and what is no longer merely an opinion is to whom the Swoop flying belongs. That has been decided definitively in arbitration so it seems many of your opponents on this site were justified.

Why don’t you go back a few months Tbaylx and re-read the threads on th matter knowing how Kaplan has ruled. It supports the opinion of your antangonists and bursts your little bubble.

You want peace in the workplace - then show some humility.

JJJ
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Last edited by jjj on Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

jjj wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:45 pm Walking in off the street during a hiring ban in the middle of a labour dispute to circumvent the existing queue is a personal attack.

JJJ
No it isn’t. At the time they weren’t in any queue. They were jobs posted on an open market. It could easily have gone the other way and operated as a completely separate company. There isn’t anything personal in that, it’s business. Your fight has always been with the company, but some of you have chosen to take the low road and go after the pilots.
Fine, but if you can’t keep from personal attacks and acting unprofessional in the discussion then that reflects poorly on the WestJet pilot group.
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jjj
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by jjj »

Let’s be clear Tbaylx,

I do not condone personal attacks nor have I made any.

I strictly explain what is my opinion and what is fact.

You claim there was no queue? That is balderdash. We had a contract that said there was - discussed many times here so that almost anyone can quote the section. On what basis do you think Mr. Kaplan’s made his decision? The case for ownership of flying and a queue is wholly justified.

Yes there is a dispute with the company and there is also a dispute with you. They are interconnected yet I assure you you are not bearing the brunt of anyone else’s actions.

JJJ
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moe
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by moe »

tbay=BOTL
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tbaylx
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by tbaylx »

moe wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:44 pmtbay=BOTL
Love you too Moe, could care less where I sit on your list.

JJJ,
If the dispute is with us and the company does that include the entire first class of FA's as well that your group managed to alienate on their flight out to YYC? You have a group of bullies trying to push around anyone associated with Swoop cause they didn't like what happened. It's embarrassing for the majority of pilots there that are trying to maintain some semblance of a professional group.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by WeedPro2000 »

jjj wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:59 pm Let’s be clear Tbaylx,

I do not condone personal attacks nor have I made any.

I strictly explain what is my opinion and what is fact.

You claim there was no queue? That is balderdash. We had a contract that said there was - discussed many times here so that almost anyone can quote the section. On what basis do you think Mr. Kaplan’s made his decision? The case for ownership of flying and a queue is wholly justified.

Yes there is a dispute with the company and there is also a dispute with you. They are interconnected yet I assure you you are not bearing the brunt of anyone else’s actions.

JJJ
James, I don't want to split hairs, but if you had a contract that specified you had a right to that flying, why didn't you defend it in court? Why didn't ALPA? The working conditions were frozen as per the statutory freeze, and any violation of that freeze would be actionable (as was done with the LOA's). So, was there a contract as you say? Was there a violation of the statutory freeze as you would seem to imply. And if there was no violation of the stautory freeze, might that explain why ALPA did not contest the staffing at Swoop?
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Bede »

Weedpro,

You keep asking rhetorical questions that have been answered previously.

Again, ALPA did fight this legally before the CIRB (which is the proper forum, not a Superior court) via a ULP complaint. They elected not to persue it as it would take too long to resolve and would put a pause in our negotiations. Better to negotiate it out.
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Transonic
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by Transonic »

Bede wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:00 pm Better to negotiate it out.
Which ended up being successful in the end and to WeedPro's dismay, resulted in a common employer. Well done ALPA.
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cloak
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Re: Westjet mainline commuting

Post by cloak »

Mob mentality, cyber-bullying anonymously or unprofessional conduct and comments not only will diminish the image of the group, but in the end hurt the bullies more than anyone else; because they are the ones that have to live within that perceived reality every day. One who is miserable and ungrateful in victory or defeat, knows no happiness!
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