Instructor Pay
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Instructor Pay
Nice to see schools moving to salaried positions for instructors...
Oh hang on a minute, that's just another way to screw Class 4s around.
Take for example the latest offer from a certain training "institution". $18,750 salary - works out to a whopping $9.375/hour, just a little bit shy of the current minimum wage in Alberta of $13.60... According to Statistics Canada, the so-called "Low Income Measure" for a single adult with no children is $20,137. Nothing like being a professional with post secondary education and living below the poverty line.
A minimum wage worker in Alberta (assuming they work full time, and the "standard" 50 weeks a year) will gross $27,200.
Now, the minimum wage is set to increase to $15/hour on 1 October 2018 - meaning this fine bit of remuneration will be even further from any semblance of a decent wage. Give me a friggin' break people.
The minimum wage worker after 1 October 2018 will then gross $30,000 in a year.
Oh hang on a minute, that's just another way to screw Class 4s around.
Take for example the latest offer from a certain training "institution". $18,750 salary - works out to a whopping $9.375/hour, just a little bit shy of the current minimum wage in Alberta of $13.60... According to Statistics Canada, the so-called "Low Income Measure" for a single adult with no children is $20,137. Nothing like being a professional with post secondary education and living below the poverty line.
A minimum wage worker in Alberta (assuming they work full time, and the "standard" 50 weeks a year) will gross $27,200.
Now, the minimum wage is set to increase to $15/hour on 1 October 2018 - meaning this fine bit of remuneration will be even further from any semblance of a decent wage. Give me a friggin' break people.
The minimum wage worker after 1 October 2018 will then gross $30,000 in a year.
Last edited by 7ECA on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Instructor Pay
It's embarrassing for sure that any company would pay this don't get me wrong, but it's more embarrassing that this company doesn't have 0 instructors because people refuse to undervalue themselves.7ECA wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:02 pm Nice to see schools moving to salaried positions for instructors...
Oh hang on a minute, that's just another way to screw Class 4s around.
Take for example the latest offer from a certain training "institution". $18,750 salary - works out to a whopping $9.375/hour, just a little bit shy of the current minimum wage in Alberta of $13.60... According to Statistics Canada, the so-called "Low Income Measure" for a single adult with no children is $20,137. Nothing like being a professional with post secondary education and living below the poverty line.
A minimum wage worker in Alberta (assuming they work full time, and the "standard" 50 weeks a year) will gross $27,200.
Now, the minimum wage is set to increase to $15/hour on 1 October 2018 - meaning this fine bit of renumeration will be even further from any semblance of a decent wage. Give me a friggin' break people.
The minimum wage worker after 1 October 2018 will then gross $30,000 in a year.
Don't work at these companies, make them starve for instructors and see what they'll start paying.
You think Porter paid triple overtime last summer in goodwill?
- JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Instructor Pay
When I got my first instructing job ten years ago (almost to the day, now that I think about it) at a little mom-and-pop shop I had a base rate higher than that. This was back when instructors were a dime a dozen.
- JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Instructor Pay
Of interest would be the fact that the Federal Minimum Wage, is the same as the Provincial Minimum Wage - meaning that even in industries under Federal jurisdiction like aviation, employers must pay all employees no less than the provincial minimum.
So how can this school or any other, justify paying an hourly wage or salary less than what is legal?
So how can this school or any other, justify paying an hourly wage or salary less than what is legal?
Re: Instructor Pay
1) Because nobody complaints
2) (I disagree with the following, but that's how some schools explain it) Instructors only "work" while flying or ground instructing. They'll be above minimum wage when you calculate it by flight/instructing time. Ridiculous.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
- Cat Driver
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Re: Instructor Pay
It's assbackwards.
Those who teach should be paid more than other pilots, not less.
Those who teach should be paid more than other pilots, not less.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Instructor Pay
Actually, one should really calculate this by the duty day of the instructor. Knowing most flight schools, CARS max. wouldn't be far off...
So working 14 hour days, five days a week (although places like this probably make these poor bastards work six days a week); is a grand total of $5.357/hour.
Not that I'd condone it, but at least if they paid the provincial minimum hourly wage you'd end up with $47,600 gross over that brutal work year.
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Re: Instructor Pay
And what CARs duty times do instructors have to abide by?
Re: Instructor Pay
Well as soon as you first show up for work your day has started towards a maximum of 14hrs.leftoftrack wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:17 am And what CARs duty times do instructors have to abide by?
Split duty days have to be expressly agreed upon beforehand so that can't fly.
Duty time would be the limiting factor, with 36hrs off in any 3 consecutive 12hr days, I guess too.
No instructor would touch the 60hr in 7 day time.
Re: Instructor Pay
Did I miss some CAR's changes? I thought flight instructors weren't restricted with duty time limits. They certainly weren't when I was an instructor.FL007 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:07 pmWell as soon as you first show up for work your day has started towards a maximum of 14hrs.leftoftrack wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:17 am And what CARs duty times do instructors have to abide by?
Split duty days have to be expressly agreed upon beforehand so that can't fly.
Duty time would be the limiting factor, with 36hrs off in any 3 consecutive 12hr days, I guess too.
No instructor would touch the 60hr in 7 day time.
Re: Instructor Pay
No commercial pilot in Canada can fly longer than a 14hr day unless they go unforeseen. Including flight instructors. Hourly limits wouldn't be the limiting factor for flight instructor, because they fly more sporadically, however if you show up for a flight at 5am, you can't fly at 10pm, unless you've had rest.ant_321 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:55 pmDid I miss some CAR's changes? I thought flight instructors weren't restricted with duty time limits. They certainly weren't when I was an instructor.FL007 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:07 pmWell as soon as you first show up for work your day has started towards a maximum of 14hrs.leftoftrack wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:17 am And what CARs duty times do instructors have to abide by?
Split duty days have to be expressly agreed upon beforehand so that can't fly.
Duty time would be the limiting factor, with 36hrs off in any 3 consecutive 12hr days, I guess too.
No instructor would touch the 60hr in 7 day time.
Edit: I understand maybe the norm in flight instructing is very random, spread out days that seem like they don't follow Canadian regulation, however I think this was just the atmosphere in flight instruction.
If you want to be technical, flight instructors probably get by this with split days, however again, split days must be agreed upon beforehand and rest needs to happen in the between time, but we all know this isn't the case with FIs.
Re: Instructor Pay
Do you have a CAR reference? Every CAR that starts with 7xx is generally not applicable for flight training.FL007 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:02 pmNo commercial pilot in Canada can fly longer than a 14hr day unless they go unforeseen. Including flight instructors. Hourly limits wouldn't be the limiting factor for flight instructor, because they fly more sporadically, however if you show up for a flight at 5am, you can't fly at 10pm, unless you've had rest.ant_321 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:55 pmDid I miss some CAR's changes? I thought flight instructors weren't restricted with duty time limits. They certainly weren't when I was an instructor.FL007 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:07 pm
Well as soon as you first show up for work your day has started towards a maximum of 14hrs.
Split duty days have to be expressly agreed upon beforehand so that can't fly.
Duty time would be the limiting factor, with 36hrs off in any 3 consecutive 12hr days, I guess too.
No instructor would touch the 60hr in 7 day time.
Edit: I understand maybe the norm in flight instructing is very random, spread out days that seem like they don't follow Canadian regulation, however I think this was just the atmosphere in flight instruction.
If you want to be technical, flight instructors probably get by this with split days, however again, split days must be agreed upon beforehand and rest needs to happen in the between time, but we all know this isn't the case with FIs.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Instructor Pay
Flight instructor hours are not limited, in Canada.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Instructor Pay
I don't know, I think it's debatable.
In the CARS standards the only exemption to these rules is dhc6 and helicopters, however they are pretty clear:
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service or heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in ANYaircraft shall not exceed:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;
(b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;
(d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(g) the accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(h) 1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(2) For heli-logging operations, the maximum flight time in all flying shall not exceed:
(a) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days for single-pilot helicopters;
(b) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days for helicopters operated by two pilots; and
(c) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
In the CARS standards the only exemption to these rules is dhc6 and helicopters, however they are pretty clear:
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service or heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in ANYaircraft shall not exceed:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;
(b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;
(d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(g) the accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(h) 1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(2) For heli-logging operations, the maximum flight time in all flying shall not exceed:
(a) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days for single-pilot helicopters;
(b) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days for helicopters operated by two pilots; and
(c) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
Re: Instructor Pay
Is that not saying the quoted reg applies only to 702 and 703? Instructing is neither of those.
Re: Instructor Pay
True. I didn't realize part 400 didn't have any duty or max time. My mistake, if they're not mandated by tc it must fall under labor board work standards.
Still messed up.