ATPL Application process tips

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JAHinYYC
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by JAHinYYC »

Oxi wrote:Clearly says 100 hours PIC.
To be clear it does not say that.

It says "100 hours night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot of which a minimum of 30 hours shall have been acquired in aeroplanes;"

Since I counted dual as co-pilot time elsewhere for the purposes of the total time requirement on the form I mistakenly thought that night dual counted as co-pilot.

I am wrong. I made a mistake. Release the hounds...and the hounds with bees in their mouths...
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SM16
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by SM16 »

Sky_Conqueror wrote:Greetings all. Sorry If I may sound a bit ignorant in regards to this subject. Now I know TC has changed a dump-load of regulations in recent months. I finally decided to look step by step into the few logbooks I have. I had a question in regards to the process in general.

I've unfortunately jumped from place to place. So my logbook includes a variety of experience ranging from contracts, aircraft rentals and various operators. The issue is that some of the places either don't exist anymore / changed ownership etc. And some flights I have done recently at a certain school doesn't seem to keep track of the plane rentals. Do you guys see where I'm heading?

Yes...the infamous word = certified hours...or certified logbook. As quoted in the previous paragraph, some of this certification will be close to impossible to certify.

What are the processes that TC goes through to validate logbook? Do they call all these places? Do I have to myself board a TIMEMACHINE and track down all these and force some of those flightschools to certify hours?

Great help would be needed. Thanks!
Did you get an answer?
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rogeriouzz
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ATPL Foreign Conversion

Post by rogeriouzz »

Hi Guys,

I am new here, so, i have some questions regarding ATPL License Application from TC.
I am a 787 Captain in a ME Airline, but my country do not have any 787 registered there, for this reason i am unable to add this TR on my Base License.
Canada has a well recognized license, and i would like to "Store" my license under TC umbrella, less complicated and less expensive than FAA(Now much less due FAA ATPCTP cour$e).
My actual license do not belongs to me, it belongs to the company, and when i leave the company, it is part of the termination process to return the license, and NO License Autentication Form will be issued on my behalf. So, keep in mind this info when applying to ME Companies.

Ok, after this introductory briefing, i need to say that i am aware of the process to do the conversion, already studying to SAMRA, INRAT and SARON, my intention is to perform these tests, and after approved, go to a 737 sim to do the Stand-Alone Checkride (Multi-Engine). I am starting this process very soon, and there are my questions:

1) These tests SAMRA, INRAT and SARON can be done in one region, and the process itself done in another region? (Ex: Make these tests in Vancouver, Open the process for the ATPL License in Winnipeg, and SIM at Toronto??)
2) To perform the written tests is just approach any applicable Transport Canada Centre or Authorized Examination Invigilators, during working hours, OR these tests are done at fixed dates? Do i need to schedule it in advance??
3) Regarding submit the logbooks, is it safe?? how do they return it to the applicant, or do you need to collect it after ready?
4) Do you know any 737 SIM in Canada that i can use it for this purpose?? The 787 SIM of AIR CANADA seems to be exclusively for them. Unfortunately..

Thank you guys, it is everything new for me, deal with this stuff, but i hope that someone can light my head, and help me with these questions.


Safe Skies!!
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JAHinYYC
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Re: ATPL Foreign Conversion

Post by JAHinYYC »

Good morning:

To answer some of your questions:

a) You have to complete the multi engine flight test in an actual airplane. You cannot take the test in simulator. This need not be a 737 or 787 aircraft...a light piston twin aircraft rented from a flight training unit will suffice.

You will need a letter of recommendation from a qualified instructor to be eligible for admission to the test. Notwithstanding your substantial experience, I suggest an instructor would want to see you fly once and manage the flight test drills prior to sending you for the test.

b) The exams may be written in one region and the results used for an application made in a second region. As an example I live in Calgary and wrote SAMRA in the Calgary office (Prairies Region). I wrote SARON in the Vancouver office (Pacific Region) during a brief trip there.

Ultimately my application was sent to the Prairies Region office in Winnipeg for processing. I completed the form, send the fee, the letters showing my test results and logbooks to the Winnipeg office. The more stuff you include and the less they look up the better it seems.

The question of where your application will be processed is probably the more complicated one, as it seems you are not a resident of Canada. Normally your file is held in the regional office where you reside. If you don't live here, would might be able to work around this issue by using the mailing address for a friend or relative.

c) Call the test center you intend to use to ask about booking a time to write the examination. Calgary's test room is small and the computers used for the test must be booked in advance. I do not recall whether I need to book a time in Vancouver.

d) Submitting your logbooks is safe (although I would make a photocopy as back up). I sent mine in via courier and they were returned to me by Transport Canada via registered post. If you would like them couriered back to you then include an international prepaid return envelope for this purpose.

Be forewarned. Processing time is promised to be 90 days in the Prairies Region. It took them almost exactly 90 days to be processed and return things to me.

e) You must complete a multi engine instrument flight test (or pilot proficiency check if you have already passed the initial flight test) no more than one year (365 days) before the application for an ATPL is submitted.

You will need a letter of recommendation for the flight test from a qualified instructor.

The multi engine instrument flight test (or pilot proficiency check) CANNOT be completed in a flight simulator. It does not matter if it is a full motion or category D sim. The test has to be in an airplane.

A few other things to consider...

I) Do you possess a Canadian Catagory One medical? You will need one to hold the ATPL.

In my experience, one's first interface with Transport Canada begins with the medical which opens a file number which later becomes your license number. If you are already applying for license conversions perhaps you have this already, if not. I would start there.

II) You seem to be hoping to have your type rating added to your ATPL. I am not certain whether your current type rating from your current employer's home company will transfer to your Canadian license. If not, you will need to pass a PPC here to gain the endoresment. The only way to add a type rating for an advanced aircraft like this would be through a company sponsored training and PPC program...I am not sure how you will be able to work around this.

Returning to your original questions about the ATPL process....Looking at what you intend to achieve I would recommend writing and passing all the exams first and then spending a few days in Canada at a flight school.

You will need to get your Canadian license issues, write your tests, pass your multi engine flight test, get the multi rating signed off and then pass your multi engine instrument flight test to have these endorsements added to your Canadian license. Once again - you cannot do much of this in a sim. It has to be a real airplane.

Good luck.

JAHinYYC

rogeriouzz wrote: after approved, go to a 737 sim to do the Stand-Alone Checkride (Multi-Engine).

I am starting this process very soon, and there are my questions:

1) These tests SAMRA, INRAT and SARON can be done in one region, and the process itself done in another region? (Ex: Make these tests in Vancouver, Open the process for the ATPL License in Winnipeg, and SIM at Toronto??)
2) To perform the written tests is just approach any applicable Transport Canada Centre or Authorized Examination Invigilators, during working hours, OR these tests are done at fixed dates? Do i need to schedule it in advance??
3) Regarding submit the logbooks, is it safe?? how do they return it to the applicant, or do you need to collect it after ready?
4) Do you know any 737 SIM in Canada that i can use it for this purpose?? The 787 SIM of AIR CANADA seems to be exclusively for them. Unfortunately..

Thank you guys, it is everything new for me, deal with this stuff, but i hope that someone can light my head, and help me with these questions.


Safe Skies!!
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complexintentions
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by complexintentions »

Some good info, except about adding the type rating to the license.

I too was working at a ME company. While I was there I added the B777 type rating to my Canadian ATPL. It was a paperwork exercise, I had to demonstrate I was actively flying the B777 by providing records of my last PPC and last several pages of my logbook, and paying $30 at the time. I then received the sticker with the B777 rating added. Simples.

It may depend on which ME country the poster is working in, I would assume it would have to be an ICAO member, which mine (UAE) was/is. Incidentally, the UAE GCAA does provide a license authentication letter, at no charge, and I did keep my UAE license (for what it's worth). Not all ME countries or employers are the same.

Like most Canadians I did my multi-engine rating on a light piston twin, long before I left Canada. But I find it bizarre that it isn't possible apparently to do your initial multi rating on a Level D sim...?

Anyway, to the original poster - I would get your Transport Canada medical done first, because you can do that in the ME - there are lots of Canadians in Dubai for example, who keep their TC medical current locally. (I suspect you are in DOH, so getting to DXB may be a problem these days.) If not you can always do it in Canada, there are plenty of private docs who will do one. But once that's done, just head to Canada for a week to knock off the exams, they're incredibly easy compared to other licenses (i.e. EASA). Get familiar with some ancient piston twin - painful after flying jets, but cheaper than a sim course, anyway. Do a couple hours with an instructor and the tests. Then submit your paperwork for the license along with the B787 endorsement. Done.

Pretty much any major Canadian city will be able to do the flight training and medical part, and the exam centres are all listed as well. So I'd try to do it all in one place, based on where you have may have contacts you can use as your Canadian address and of course, best accessible from an employee travel ticket!
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tango308
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by tango308 »

A question for the XC entries in your logbook.
Do you guys put anything in the remark field when you log cross-country?
I was told by a former collegue that (this is uniquely for instructors i imagine) you need to have exercice #23 written in the remark in order for TC to accept this as cross-country time... Is this correct?
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C-GKNT
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by C-GKNT »

tango308 wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:55 pm A question for the XC entries in your logbook.
Do you guys put anything in the remark field when you log cross-country?
I was told by a former collegue that (this is uniquely for instructors i imagine) you need to have exercice #23 written in the remark in order for TC to accept this as cross-country time... Is this correct?
NO...
Exercise #23 has no meaning outside of the training environment. The airports in the from/to column in addition to a non-zero entry in the cross-country column in most logbooks will indicate that it is a cross country flight.

Glenn
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parsnipity
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by parsnipity »

Has anyone gotten their ATPL processed lately in the Prarie and Northern region?
I sent mine out over 2 months ago and still haven't received my sticker yet.
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tbayav8er
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by tbayav8er »

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I would correct some of you. I spoke with a TC inspector who is pretty high up in the licensing department, and she said your IFR flight test CAN be done in a level C or D sim for the purpose of processing the ATPL. They are working on changing the wording in the CARs.

It would be ridiculous that someone's recurrent ride in a level D sim for a 705 aircraft wouldn't count, but an IFR ride in a Seminole would.
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Gonzodriver
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by Gonzodriver »

Just dropped off my application at PNR head office. They don't process the application there as they are short staffed. They send your log books and paperwork to Ottawa. I was told it would take about 40 working days to get it back.
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Gonzodriver
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by Gonzodriver »

Gonzodriver wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:42 pm Just dropped off my application at PNR head office. They don't process the application there as they are short staffed. They send your log books and paperwork to Ottawa. I was told it would take about 40 working days to get it back.
Got the ATPL on Dec 31. Through PNR office. So it took a about 6 weeks.
Cheers
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youhavecontrol
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by youhavecontrol »

Just got off the phone with someone out of the Hamilton office, and regarding the knowledge and skill part, she confirmed that the INRAT does not have to be written within the 24 months preceding the application (just hand-write the date on the E-form after printing), but she did say that the Flight test indeed has to have been conducted in a multi-engined aircraft or a level D or C simulator in the 12 months preceding the application.

...so that sucks. Not really looking forward to doing a useless flight test again, considering I've already taught about 30 students their Group 1 ratings.
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BE10_Driver
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by BE10_Driver »

Hi guys,

Just as a heads up, I applied for my ATPL at the YUL office back in December, and I just received an email concerning my hours as co-pilot on King Air A100. They want a letter from the company confirming that their SOP's require a co-pilot for the operation since its a ''Single pilot plane''. I don't know if this is standard practice.

I worked at a commercial 703 operator, not a private operator.
I had a PPC as co-pilot on the aircraft, which I thought they would have access and would be sufficient proof...

I also have been waiting for more than 3 months for the sticker, so I would avoid Dorval office for ATPL applications if you can.
Applied at about 1700 hours with 400h co-pilot BE10

Cheers
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Roadrunnersmother
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by Roadrunnersmother »

BE10_Driver wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:13 pm Hi guys,

Just as a heads up, I applied for my ATPL at the YUL office back in December, and I just received an email concerning my hours as co-pilot on King Air A100. They want a letter from the company confirming that their SOP's require a co-pilot for the operation since its a ''Single pilot plane''. I don't know if this is standard practice.

I worked at a commercial 703 operator, not a private operator.
I had a PPC as co-pilot on the aircraft, which I thought they would have access and would be sufficient proof...

I also have been waiting for more than 3 months for the sticker, so I would avoid Dorval office for ATPL applications if you can.
Applied at about 1700 hours with 400h co-pilot BE10

Cheers
Standard practice
Have the chief pilot provide simple email to the YUL office CC to you. Easy peasy.
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skymaster007
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by skymaster007 »

Does anyone have an idea of which TC office currently processes the ATPL application the fastest?

Thanks
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ragequit
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by ragequit »

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Last edited by ragequit on Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
flyingcanuck
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by flyingcanuck »

Hey guys, I'm in Vancouver going to submit mine. Anyone have experience dealing with TC on the west coast?
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rigpiggy
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by rigpiggy »

Yes use yyj office
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rigpiggy
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by rigpiggy »

BE10_Driver wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:13 pm Hi guys,

Just as a heads up, I applied for my ATPL at the YUL office back in December, and I just received an email concerning my hours as co-pilot on King Air A100. They want a letter from the company confirming that their SOP's require a co-pilot for the operation since its a ''Single pilot plane''. I don't know if this is standard practice.

I worked at a commercial 703 operator, not a private operator.
I had a PPC as co-pilot on the aircraft, which I thought they would have access and would be sufficient proof...

I also have been waiting for more than 3 months for the sticker, so I would avoid Dorval office for ATPL applications if you can.
Applied at about 1700 hours with 400h co-pilot BE10

Cheers
In my former life as a CP, I printed off there FDT, a copy of our SOPs relevant page, and AOC. I then magic markered at random there flights, and audited given days. Made stickers with something like " the log times for xxx have been randomly audited for accuracy, and I hereby confirm that xxx has flown the following aircraft aaa,bbb,ccc,ddd etc... in accordance with company yyy's sop's and COM. R.Pig CP BF Nowhere airlines. Gave to all pilots on end of employment with their ROE
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ALI.A330
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Re: ATPL Application process tips

Post by ALI.A330 »

Hi EVERY ONE
Actually i want to convert my ICAO ATPL to the Canadian ATPL, just for more clarification could you please confirm the following steps for that:
1.Medical Check
2.Pass SARON,SAMRA and INRAT exam
3.Test Flight (on SIMULATOR or ACTUAL FLIGHT)
my flight experience is as in followed,is it enough or not?
5649 Hours Total Flight Time
360 Hours Single-engine airplane
5289 Hours Multi-Jet engine airplane (On F100,A320,A330)
267 Hours PIC (Single Engine)
264 Hours PICUS - ON A330

My another question is about second stage ,when i passed the exams how can i coordinate to test flight in the simulator?
I really appreciated to help me because the Transport Canada web site confused me about the steps.
Thanks
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