Air Canada Tokyo Incident

[C.W.E.]

"1964" "busy"

In 1964 O'hare was one of the worlds busiest airports and I was answering this question.

How much time do you have taxiing around busy airports, CWE?

In 1964 O'hare was very busy at times and it could be quite a chore keeping up to a line of DC8's and B707's at their taxi speed flying single pilot in a B18.

Have you tried to mix with big jets on the taxiways at O'hare flying a B18 single pilot?

The longest taxiway I have used was 15,500 feet long at FVHA, so you had lots of room to fast taxi if you wished.

[Jean-Pierre]

In 1973 I weaved a B18 through the landing gear strut of 747s like a slalom course. Sorry for them I was now number 1 for takeoff.

[Jack Klumpus]

Not a 787 pilot, however I imagine their moving map is similar to the one I use. You can edit the Map, and one of the functions is to insert a Cross on closed runways, taxiways. This serves a few purposes:

- something to do while in flight
- to remind us after the 12 hour flight which taxiways are closed

Yes we have millions of NOTAMS, and it sucks going through them, but you dont need to look at the taxiway closures at Tashkent, Uzbekistan, (Unless its being used for a driftdown or emergency enroute airport), however, at least have a thorough look at your Departure, Arrival, and Alternate airports. While enroute, it can kill a few minutes by checking out the nearest usable airports, seeing if they infact are usable, etc.

We all make mistakes, but let's try and mitigate those threats.

[altiplano]

Doesn't seem so cut and dry...

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbbea30&opt=0

[Victory]

It was already mentioned by pelmet above that this taxiway wasn't on any chart and not in the NOTAMs. It's hard for you guys to change your mind once you've already decided on something.

[pelmet]

It was already mentioned by pelmet above that this taxiway wasn't on any chart and not in the NOTAMs. It's hard for you guys to change your mind once you've already decided on something.

It is a perfect example of some of the 'Gotcha's" out there. They exist. We don't know what they might be except that it will be something unexpected. This one was an incident waiting to happen.

But once again, that doesn't mean that there isn't something to learn from it. Nobody else ended up on this taxiway and probably wasn't paved just yesterday. Should you look for a taxiway sign name before you go onto a taxiway? After all, there are old, closed taxiways that may not be marked. Are you one of those guys exiting at such a high speed that it feels more like a swerve and most of your concentration is focused on slowing down and maintaining control instead of exiting at a reasonable speed and scanning around at which point the very close by, actual high speed exit will be seen. Do the paint markings make sense? Do you use the yellow centerline stripe as a reference or the centerline lights?


As a note of interest, there was a lot of controversy about this airport when it was built and the farming land that was used up. Many farmers refused at the time to sell but the government went ahead and opened the airport, initially with one, long runway. It took a long time for the second runway to be built but it was, in sections over time as farmers slowly sold their land. It wasn't until enough pieces of land were sold that the sections of runway could be connected and finally opened. There is still a section of land south of the threshold of 34R that is an active farm. if you use google earth to zoom into the airport and look in this area, you can see the farm just south of the runway and a section of runway south of the farm with a high-speed exit already built and waiting to be connected to the main body of the runway when this farmer finally sells out. It laso explains the curve in the parallelt taxiway near the threshold of runway 34R. They built the airport around the farms.

[Xander]

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/ ... 2DGdYpE2hA

[Rockie]

Rockie could provide some more info but he may have been quietly told by his employer to stop embarrassing them and no longer post on company incidents.

I don't know anything about this incident, and when have I ever provided information or even an opinion on any incident regardless of who it is before the facts are known? Speculating is a pointless mugs game.

[complexintentions]

The moving map is not used as a reference as to which high-speed exit one is going to use during the landing roll.

They misidentified the exit and took the wrong one.

Embarrassing.

Not fatal.

Has happened to every airline.

This is the state of aviation now, that we have to create drama where it doesn't exist. Like Facebook.

Why I barely look at AvCanada anymore.

[C.W.E.]

For sure it can happen to anyone but fortunately it does not injure or kill anyone.

[Jet Jockey]

Shit happens... Everyone can learn something about the incident when they complete the investigation.

I'm wondering why no temporary red lights were not installed to avoid something like this.

[98 Corolla]

My first time in Narita I noticed some green taxiways and thought it was some new type of material they were using instead of concrete. Upon closer inspection they weren't in very good condition and that is when I realized they were under construction and painted green to look like infield (in a shade not very similar to grass). It's an interesting idea aesthetically but not very intuitive. After all most people don't associate green with stop.

[HansDietrich]

No doubt NOTAMS are a little outdated and sometimes overwhelming, but sh*t, for 200K + a year, an AC 787 captain makes, he (or she) better recite them like a poem, before they land at the destination. With all that being said, I'll wait and see what the actual report will say (if there will ever be one available to the public). Things are not always as "initially reported". There are many factors here.

[Bede]

No doubt NOTAMS are a little outdated and sometimes overwhelming, but sh*t, for 200K + a year, an AC 787 captain makes, he (or she) better recite them like a poem, before they land at the destination.

Hans,

You've already established your ignorance on this forum. Just stop posting.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

So if you make $100,000 you should only look at half the notams?

[HansDietrich]

No doubt NOTAMS are a little outdated and sometimes overwhelming, but sh*t, for 200K + a year, an AC 787 captain makes, he (or she) better recite them like a poem, before they land at the destination.

Hans,

You've already established your ignorance on this forum. Just stop posting.

I think you need to read between the lines here. I'm sure you can. Just give it a try. Let me put it to you in words that you may understand. Clearly, sarcasm is not your forte. You must be the life of a party, wherever you go.

What I meant by my SARCASTIC comment, is that "...At their level of experience, these small, yet important details should not be missed, confused or accidentally omitted."

Get a life man, you need to relax a bit.

[HansDietrich]

So if you make $100,000 you should only look at half the notams?

If that's what you got from my post, let's go with it. What the hell... it's the internet!

[Bede]

Hans,

It appears that you don't understand what sarcasm is. The rhetorical device that you used is overstatement.

#lifeoftheparty

[NotDirty!]

No doubt NOTAMS are a little outdated and sometimes overwhelming, but sh*t, for 200K + a year, an AC 787 captain makes, he (or she) better recite them like a poem, before they land at the destination. With all that being said, I'll wait and see what the actual report will say (if there will ever be one available to the public). Things are not always as "initially reported". There are many factors here.

Regardless of how much you get paid, it is awfully hard to read a NOTAM that doesn’t exist.

[altiplano]

No notam, no signage, not depicted on the chart.

I can see how it happened, you see on the chart that you need to take the first right after B5, you go past B5 and there is a high-speed to the right, with the end of the runway approaching quickly.
It probably has a B7 sign right next to it on the far side too.
Probably seemed about right after a 14 or 15 hour day.
From the aerial photo it appears no taxi lead out lines from the runway to B7, just a little further along.

They made a mistake, they stopped, they got help, it inconvenienced some people... glad it wasn't me.