I made a chart on expected pilot income in Canada. Need your feedback!

[gopherblack]

Hi,

I have attached the chart below. Assumptions I made are as follows:

First 3 years with small operators to build hours to get interview with Jazz.

6 years with Jazz, first 3 as a F/O and next 3 as a captain.

6 years with Air Canada Mainline, 3 as F/O and next 3 as a captain.

Got data from Airlinepilotcentral.com

Per diems not included, just raw hourly wages.

I am not sure how realistic are the upgrade times I have taken into account. Any feedback is well appreciated.

My background: BSc in hard science, currently working on Multi-IFR. Trying to juxtapose and compare my income outlook if I just go ahead with my bachelor's, although I am sure it will bug me if I do not work as a professional pilot.

[Bacunayagua]

Oh boy. Strap in gents, we're in for a wild ride!

Shit, I don't have any popcorn.

[gopherblack]

Oh boy. Strap in gents, we're in for a wild ride!

Shit, I don't have any popcorn.

I don't understand.

[Bede]

Oh boy. Strap in gents, we're in for a wild ride!

Shit, I don't have any popcorn.

I don't understand.

I think that what he's alluding to is that it's very difficult to make these sorts of predictions. I did something similar when I was starting out and my career has been nothing like I predicted. For example, I assumed that Air Canada would always hire. Then came 9/11.

Anyways, I think that if you're planning a career in aviation and you have a science degree, you will earn far more money flying than in science. The downside is the time away from home and the screwed up sleep.

[gopherblack]

Oh boy. Strap in gents, we're in for a wild ride!

Shit, I don't have any popcorn.

I don't understand.

I think that what he's alluding to is that it's very difficult to make these sorts of predictions. I did something similar when I was starting out and my career has been nothing like I predicted. For example, I assumed that Air Canada would always hire. Then came 9/11.

Anyways, I think that if you're planning a career in aviation and you have a science degree, you will earn far more money flying than in science. The downside is the time away from home and the screwed up sleep.

I know it's very hard to predict, however, I was saying based on assumptions and on current industry climate, is my chart close to reality or is it way far off. I know it is hard that's why I am asking it here since people here have more experience than me. Yeah I have a degree in physics and I think I will hopefully make more flying than pursuing science or engineering.

[goingnowherefast]

Depending on the small operator, expect to make $60,000+ by year 3.

You'll be at a bit of a cross roads in year 2. Either go to Jazz for continued shit pay. Alternatively upgrade as captain at a small operator and make $60,000 to upwards of $100,000 if you're lucky.

The other path that's becoming more popular is to skip the regional all together. Stay at the small operator, flying 704 or "705 lite" (think Perimeter, PASCO, Transwest, etc.) and making alright money until AC calls.

[Bede]

The numbers are pretty accurate I'd say based on the assumptions, but I agree with the poster above: skip regional flying and have a good job until AC calls.

[gopherblack]

Depending on the small operator, expect to make $60,000+ by year 3.

You'll be at a bit of a cross roads in year 2. Either go to Jazz for continued shit pay. Alternatively upgrade as captain at a small operator and make $60,000 to upwards of $100,000 if you're lucky.

The other path that's becoming more popular is to skip the regional all together. Stay at the small operator, flying 704 or "705 lite" (think Perimeter, PASCO, Transwest, etc.) and making alright money until AC calls.

Thank you. I didn't know about skipping the regionals. That definitely helps!

[gopherblack]

The numbers are pretty accurate I'd say based on the assumptions, but I agree with the poster above: skip regional flying and have a good job until AC calls.

Thank you for replying!

[DanWEC]

Well, the fact that you'll realistically spend 10 years under 60k on that model is ultimately true if you're trying to get to the majors.
Plenty of ways to get quicker to 100-120k and stay there if it works for you, but depends on a ton of personal and geographic factors.

[gopherblack]

Well, the fact that you'll realistically spend 10 years under 60k on that model is ultimately true if you're trying to get to the majors.
Plenty of ways to get quicker to 100-120k and stay there if it works for you, but depends on a ton of personal and geographic factors.

I mean although the initial years are rough, there's a potential to make good money once a major captain. Usually it's hard to make 150k in many occupations with just a bachelor's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[bearitus]

One thing worth noting is that as an engineer or scientist there are often opportunities to move into consulting or management later on in your career where you can make as much or more than a pilot.

[172_Captain]

I'm at 23 months in a 703 started as an F/O, got my upgrade 1.5 years ago and I'll just touch 100K this year. Maybe your 704/705 stuff is accurate (their pay scales are more readily available online), but it varies widely in 703.

[N181CS]

That might be somewhat accurate in this job market but pre 2015/14 it was more like 5-10 years to get to a regional while making less then 60k maybe a bit more depending on year round or seasonal. Just before you go to the regional you got married and maybe kids take a massive pay cut back into the 40s plus a huge cost of living increase and maybe your other half gives up their job... 5-8 years in the right seat at jazz /porter at those abismal pay rates get up to again ok money only to do the backbone slide over again. In the end are you ahead of where you would have been, that depends. I'll see you in 40 years when I'm retired and your trying to get that Fun job you missed out on because you spent 30-40 years at AC/DubJ.

Also a lot of pilots need to fill other jobs in aviation and will never see 6 figures without overtime or a second flying gig, but the quality of life a lot of them have plus some with DB pensions Is second to none. Money can't buy everything and 100k even 200k is chump change in today's market, an extra hundo won't make your kid love you more. Being home will. You would have to earn $500,000 a year to have the same spending power an upper middle class family had in the 80s and 90s. Look at the long game not the short clip. How much money would you need in the bank to generate 60-120k a year in 20-30 years? (Based on 100k a year 2 persons 60% factor)

Yes the wages are still not great at the start but your path is much shorter and your time in the low pay spots is a blip on the radar. Remember life is a journey not a destination. I don't have to wear much of a uniform, I'm home almost every night and I don't have to fly with another personality very often. No terminal shuffle or customs and security BS either. I always dreaded hitting the park brake. The "pay" stopped and the "Bull S" started and no I don't know where the bathroom is or what gate you need to be at.

[CaptainArabic]

You should include the per diems, they're an important part of the salary. For example a Jazz pilot who flies 18 days per mo gets 1500$ ( 85×20 ). Also, I think it's unrealistic to bet about 3 years as a F/O in Air Can.

[ant_321]

You should include the per diems, they're an important part of the salary. For example a Jazz pilot who flies 18 days per mo gets 1500$ ( 85×20 ). Also, I think it's unrealistic to bet about 3 years as a F/O in Air Can.

If you feel that per diem's are "an important part of salary" I would assume you report them as earnings to the CRA?

[flyingcanuck]

You should include the per diems, they're an important part of the salary. For example a Jazz pilot who flies 18 days per mo gets 1500$ ( 85×20 ). Also, I think it's unrealistic to bet about 3 years as a F/O in Air Can.

you do know what those per diems are used for yes? adding them would do ourselves a disservice to think we make more than we do, which is what the big dogs want.

[CaptainArabic]

You should include the per diems, they're an important part of the salary. For example a Jazz pilot who flies 18 days per mo gets 1500$ ( 85×20 ). Also, I think it's unrealistic to bet about 3 years as a F/O in Air Can.

If you feel that per diem's are "an important part of salary" I would assume you report them as earnings to the CRA?

If it was mandatory, I would do it.
Is it mandatory to report perdiems in the U.S. ??

And I dont talk about taxes, only about what you get in the pocket each month

[ant_321]

You should include the per diems, they're an important part of the salary. For example a Jazz pilot who flies 18 days per mo gets 1500$ ( 85×20 ). Also, I think it's unrealistic to bet about 3 years as a F/O in Air Can.

If you feel that per diem's are "an important part of salary" I would assume you report them as earnings to the CRA?

If it was mandatory, I would do it.
Is it mandatory to report perdiems in the U.S. ??

And I dont talk about taxes, only about what you get in the pocket each month

My point is that per diems are NOT part of a salary, so why would he consider them as such. Per diem is for covering expenses. It isn't part of your pay. Go on a pairing and eat out for 3 meals and you'll use it all, if you choose to brown bag it good for you. If you have to rely on them that is pretty sad. If a parent gives their kid $5 a day for lunch at school would you say the child has a salary of $25 a week?

[CaptainArabic]

If you feel that per diem's are "an important part of salary" I would assume you report them as earnings to the CRA?

If it was mandatory, I would do it.
Is it mandatory to report perdiems in the U.S. ??

And I dont talk about taxes, only about what you get in the pocket each month

My point is that per diems are NOT part of a salary, so why would he consider them as such. Per diem is for covering expenses. It isn't part of your pay. Go on a pairing and eat out for 3 meals and you'll use it all, if you choose to brown bag it good for you. If you have to rely on them that is pretty sad. If a parent gives their kid $5 a day for lunch at school would you say the child has a salary of $25 a week?

Oh I see. Thanks.