WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

[tbaylx]

Why are there 6 more “bypass” positions in YHM? Does that mean in YHM there will be 23 OUT OF SENORITY pilots occupying the left seat, plus 23 bypass pilots from the June bid. Plus 6 more now?

Those are the first of the 23 pilots who are currently awarded the bypass positions starting to arrive at Swoop, don’t go getting all excited, there aren’t any more, yet.

[Ex99guy]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

[Jumbo744]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

You sound way too emotional. Very few people care about ''Your'' jumpseat. And by the way Swoop is expanding, you might actually need their jumpseat soon. You do not represent Canadian aviation. STFU and thank you.

[KAG]

Swoop is expanding with all WJ pilots, so it's a tail/uniform shuffle...so yeah those jumps seats will be open.

[Skyhunter]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

First , I have no skin in this game just to be clear from the outset.

I have a question for you. Say a guy was PFO’d by WJ, by AC, by encore. Your telling me you can be upset with that guy taking a swoop job. If so then I think you are the one with some anger issues.

[eyebrow737]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

Hey turboprop pusher. You don't speak for me. Move on and grow up loser.

Sincerely the rest of Canadian Aviation that doesn't give a toss about pilots that clean planes

[sicamore]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

Still stuck at encore Ex99guy? If it makes you feel better, never mind, with your attitude you were probably deemed unupgradable

[Ex DC10 Driver]

Was told today that 6 of the previously awarded bypass positions resigned for DEC’s at Sunwing....therefore 6 more bypass Captains required to keep the total at 23 since 3 positions were previously eliminated.....time will tell if this is accurate.

[flyzam]

Was told today that 6 of the previously awarded bypass positions resigned for DEC’s at Sunwing....therefore 6 more bypass Captains required to keep the total at 23 since 3 positions were previously eliminated.....time will tell if this is accurate.

That is correct, Sunwing has accepted a number of Swoop pilots into their ranks. Expect more to come.

[Tacoma]

Just to clarify are these 6 westjet pilots who were awarded bypass positions and have now quit to fly for sunwing? Or 6 OTS original swoop pilots quit for sunwing?

[Ex DC10 Driver]

They are WestJet F/O’s. If they were Swoop Captains then the bypass positions would of been reduced by 6 as per Kaplan’s ruling.

[KAG]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

Hey turboprop pusher. You don't speak for me. Move on and grow up loser.

Sincerely the rest of Canadian Aviation that doesn't give a toss about pilots that clean planes

I'm confused. He's referring to westjet pilots specifically, and you're refering to westjet pilots. Its an accurate statement that he as a WJ pilot will deny those swoop pilots the jump seat. I gather youre not? So what do you care? Whose the loser now, oh that's right someone didnt get involved in your labour dispute.

Skyhunter, as for the getting PFO comment, yeah if you've had all those doors slammed in your face, it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror. It's a piss poor argument, especially during a pilot shortage. Look I know that this industry is anything but fair, some great people have been turned away for silly reasons, but that doesnt give them a right to jump into a labour dispute and not expect backlash.

[eyebrow737]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

Hey turboprop pusher. You don't speak for me. Move on and grow up loser.

Sincerely the rest of Canadian Aviation that doesn't give a toss about pilots that clean planes

I'm confused. He's referring to westjet pilots specifically, and you're refering to westjet pilots. Its an accurate statement that he as a WJ pilot will deny those swoop pilots the jump seat. I gather youre not? So what do you care? Whose the loser now, oh that's right someone didnt get involved in your labour dispute.

Skyhunter, as for the getting PFO comment, yeah if you've had all those doors slammed in your face, it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror. It's a piss poor argument, especially during a pilot shortage. Look I know that this industry is anything but fair, some great people have been turned away for silly reasons, but that doesnt give them a right to jump into a labour dispute and not expect backlash.

Eh? I'm taking exception at junior talking for "the rest of Canadian Aviation". Wtf are you talking about?

[.80@410]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".

Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

You sound way too emotional. Very few people care about ''Your'' jumpseat. And by the way Swoop is expanding, you might actually need their jumpseat soon. You do not represent Canadian aviation. STFU and thank you.

I understand his POV better than I understand anyone defending these backstabbing dirty 30.

Ya maybe “rest of Canadian aviation “ is broad .
However, 91 % of WJ pilots telling these guys to “pound sand “ is pretty accurate .

[Skyhunter]

Hey Tbaylx,

Enough with the cavalier attitude.

Every time we here that disgusting call sign on the radio we all die inside.

My "jumpseat" will never be open to the "26".



Pound sand,

Regards,

The rest of Canadian aviation

Hey turboprop pusher. You don't speak for me. Move on and grow up loser.

Sincerely the rest of Canadian Aviation that doesn't give a toss about pilots that clean planes

I'm confused. He's referring to westjet pilots specifically, and you're refering to westjet pilots. Its an accurate statement that he as a WJ pilot will deny those swoop pilots the jump seat. I gather youre not? So what do you care? Whose the loser now, oh that's right someone didnt get involved in your labour dispute.

Skyhunter, as for the getting PFO comment, yeah if you've had all those doors slammed in your face, it's time to take a long hard look in the mirror. It's a piss poor argument, especially during a pilot shortage. Look I know that this industry is anything but fair, some great people have been turned away for silly reasons, but that doesnt give them a right to jump into a labour dispute and not expect backlash.

Kag

I respectfully disagree with your opinion. If I had all those doors slammed in my face I am sure I would have seriously considered applying. Fortunately I am not in that situation. And if you were, can you honestly say you wouldn’t have thought about it? Maybe you can but I think you would be a rare case personally.

[duele]

I just read the first page and the 18th page. Holy smokes is this a political labor market! Where I come from, you see a job you want, you apply for the job, no one cares. On this forum of course 91% of everyone hates Swoop pilots but I think more than 9% of people who don't work as pilots would see where they're coming from.

[mbav8r]

I just read the first page and the 18th page. Holy smokes is this a political labor market! Where I come from, you see a job you want, you apply for the job, no one cares. On this forum of course 91% of everyone hates Swoop pilots but I think more than 9% of people who don't work as pilots would see where they're coming from.

So, where you come from, if employees have a written agreement that they cannot outsource their work but the company does anyway, nobody cares?
Sure, Americans are known for their easy going nature!
I have noticed that you’re quickly making a name for yourself on here, hint it’s not for your intellect:)

[sicamore]

I just read the first page and the 18th page. Holy smokes is this a political labor market! Where I come from, you see a job you want, you apply for the job, no one cares. On this forum of course 91% of everyone hates Swoop pilots but I think more than 9% of people who don't work as pilots would see where they're coming from.

So, where you come from, if employees have a written agreement that they cannot outsource their work but the company does anyway, nobody cares?
Sure, Americans are known for their easy going nature!
I have noticed that you’re quickly making a name for yourself on here, hint it’s not for your intellect:)

mbav8r, most places in the world do not have a written agreement that the employer can't outsource work. Maybe you will find some communist nations that still do this. As for most of the rest, they have embraced the free market and concept of meritocracy.

And people wonder why Canadian Aviation is the worst in the modern world.

[duele]

I just read the first page and the 18th page. Holy smokes is this a political labor market! Where I come from, you see a job you want, you apply for the job, no one cares. On this forum of course 91% of everyone hates Swoop pilots but I think more than 9% of people who don't work as pilots would see where they're coming from.

So, where you come from, if employees have a written agreement that they cannot outsource their work but the company does anyway, nobody cares?
Sure, Americans are known for their easy going nature!
I have noticed that you’re quickly making a name for yourself on here, hint it’s not for your intellect:)

Would you believe that I finished uni with a GPA in the top 3 of the school? I'm just here to ruffle your feathers mbav8r. I'm a dual citizen but have lived my whole life in Canada so your American jab missed the mark. By "where I come from" I was referring to my career/industry where the labour market runs on the free market principles of supply and demand.

There is a reason why one of the most talented poets of our time, Mr. 305 aka Mr. Worldwide doesn't write about the importance of unions instead of hard work and opportunity. I think Mr. Worldwide would have easily sided with Swoop on this one.

[WeedPro2000]

So, where you come from, if employees have a written agreement that they cannot outsource their work but the company does anyway, nobody cares?
Sure, Americans are known for their easy going nature!
I have noticed that you’re quickly making a name for yourself on here, hint it’s not for your intellect:)

Hold on there slick! If there is a written agreement that the work can't be outsourced, then why on earth would ALPA, with all of its resources and legal know how, not have filed an unfair labour practice complaint?

Perhaps the issue is not as simple as you make it seem.

[tbaylx]

.

[FL410AV8R]

So, where you come from, if employees have a written agreement that they cannot outsource their work but the company does anyway, nobody cares?
Sure, Americans are known for their easy going nature!
I have noticed that you’re quickly making a name for yourself on here, hint it’s not for your intellect:)

Hold on there slick! If there is a written agreement that the work can't be outsourced, then why on earth would ALPA, with all of its resources and legal know how, not have filed an unfair labour practice complaint?

Perhaps the issue is not as simple as you make it seem.

Surely you are not ignorant enough to be implying that ALPA is responsible for the wishy washy language in the WJPA document, are you?

We were all assured by individuals in the WJPA in the past that the language in our pilot working conditions document was sufficient and prevented WestJet from doing exactly what they have done with Swoop. Clearly that assurance was false. Perhaps try placing the blame where it actually belongs instead of being blinded by your obvious hatred of all things ALPA and of unions in general.

I would tell you to go take a long walk off a short pier but you may take that a little too much to heart.

[WeedPro2000]

So, where you come from, if employees have a written agreement that they cannot outsource their work but the company does anyway, nobody cares?
Sure, Americans are known for their easy going nature!
I have noticed that you’re quickly making a name for yourself on here, hint it’s not for your intellect:)

Hold on there slick! If there is a written agreement that the work can't be outsourced, then why on earth would ALPA, with all of its resources and legal know how, not have filed an unfair labour practice complaint?

Perhaps the issue is not as simple as you make it seem.

Surely you are not ignorant enough to be implying that ALPA is responsible for the wishy washy language in the WJPA document, are you?

We were all assured by individuals in the WJPA in the past that the language in our pilot working conditions document was sufficient and prevented WestJet from doing exactly what they have done with Swoop. Clearly that assurance was false. Perhaps try placing the blame where it actually belongs instead of being blinded by your obvious hatred of all things ALPA and of unions in general.

I would tell you to go take a long walk off a short pier but you may take that a little too much to heart.

It might come as a surprise to you, but I don’t blame ALPA for the current state of affairs. No sir, ALPA is blameless. The people I hold responsible are the members of the WJ organizing committee and every WJ pilot who voted in favour of certification. Those people, well, they got what they deservedl...a black and white relationship.

See the thing is, you fail to understand that the terms of the last WJPA agreement may well have been defensible in a competent court. I’m unsure of that one, and argued in numerous venues starting around the time of the WPPA organization attempt (the group with the purloined ‘industry leading’ constitution) that the agreement was not legally defensible. PY and company maintained and I know they were sincere and had legal advice that it was. But the more important piece was that no leader at WJ was ever going to knowingly violate an agreement. It would have led to certification as employees sought certainty of work terms. But as I said, we had that certainty. And we had a good relationship with management...

With certification, any gentlemen’s agreement, even if that’s all we had, was gone. Immediately the relationship was governed by the Canada Labour Code, and only by that Code. No longer was there a civil court remedy to alleged violations of the agreement. The one and only remedy was an Unfair Labour Practice Complaint. Period. It wouldn’t matter the wording of any agreement. As long as the company didn’t violate the terms of the Statutory Freeze imposed by certification, the company was free to manage its affairs.

So you see, it is the WJ pilots themselves who are responsible for the OTS pilots at Swoop. Pat yourselves on the back for that one.

Attached is screenshot of a post by a now LEC member who talked to the President of ALPA and received assurances that WJ pilots could decide what they wanted with respect to a seniority list because frankly, anything prior to certification didn’t matter. As an aside, I disagree with the info passed along. I am that “one” person, that lonely sober voice in the wilderness educating the masses of the contents of the ALPA Constitution and of ALPA Executive Board policy, which MEC’s and all members are bound to follow.

[FL410AV8R]

Hold on there slick! If there is a written agreement that the work can't be outsourced, then why on earth would ALPA, with all of its resources and legal know how, not have filed an unfair labour practice complaint?

Perhaps the issue is not as simple as you make it seem.

Surely you are not ignorant enough to be implying that ALPA is responsible for the wishy washy language in the WJPA document, are you?

We were all assured by individuals in the WJPA in the past that the language in our pilot working conditions document was sufficient and prevented WestJet from doing exactly what they have done with Swoop. Clearly that assurance was false. Perhaps try placing the blame where it actually belongs instead of being blinded by your obvious hatred of all things ALPA and of unions in general.

I would tell you to go take a long walk off a short pier but you may take that a little too much to heart.

It might come as a surprise to you, but I don’t blame ALPA for the current state of affairs. No sir, ALPA is blameless. The people I hold responsible are the members of the WJ organizing committee and every WJ pilot who voted in favour of certification. Those people, well, they got what they deservedl...a black and white relationship.

See the thing is, you fail to understand that the terms of the last WJPA agreement may well have been defensible in a competent court. I’m unsure of that one, and argued in numerous venues starting around the time of the WPPA organization attempt (the group with the purloined ‘industry leading’ constitution) that the agreement was not legally defensible. PY and company maintained and I know they were sincere and had legal advice that it was. But the more important piece was that no leader at WJ was ever going to knowingly violate an agreement. It would have led to certification as employees sought certainty of work terms. But as I said, we had that certainty. And we had a good relationship with management...

With certification, any gentlemen’s agreement, even if that’s all we had, was gone. Immediately the relationship was governed by the Canada Labour Code, and only by that Code. No longer was there a civil court remedy to alleged violations of the agreement. The one and only remedy was an Unfair Labour Practice Complaint. Period. It wouldn’t matter the wording of any agreement. As long as the company didn’t violate the terms of the Statutory Freeze imposed by certification, the company was free to manage its affairs.

So you see, it is the WJ pilots themselves who are responsible for the OTS pilots at Swoop. Pat yourselves on the back for that one.

Attached is screenshot of a post by a now LEC member who talked to the President of ALPA and received assurances that WJ pilots could decide what they wanted with respect to a seniority list because frankly, anything prior to certification didn’t matter. As an aside, I disagree with the info passed along. I am that “one” person, that lonely sober voice in the wilderness educating the masses of the contents of the ALPA Constitution and of ALPA Executive Board policy, which MEC’s and all members are bound to follow.

Holy squirrel dude, how many times are you going to trot out this drivel?

[co-joe]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where Encore pilots fit into this mess?

Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#403 Post by Rezy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:30 am

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:41 am
Just saw a fresh ad on indeed.ca today for Swoop FOs. What’s the deal with that?

Arbitrator stated WJ could open the Swoop ad on June 12 in case no pilots bid the position, that would allow Swoop to hire OTS - only if the positions are not filled internally. Clear as day in the Interim Order. This was expected weeks ago.
---------- ADS -----------

This is from 2 months ago, but shouldn't any unfilled Swoop spots be offered to Encore pilots before they go OTS?