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mbav8r
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by mbav8r »

cloak wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:56 pm Seems like my comments touched some raw nerves which just proved my point! Much of the ramblings comes from "other" pilots who forget their own contributions to the profession...it is what it is, they're just cogs in the wheel, we get it, but those living in glass houses should not throw stones....nuff said!
Ok, glad you said this because it appears that you are an AC pilot.
Did you vote yes to “steal” the RJs from Jazz years ago?
Did you support the SR start up, you know the removal of scope that Jazz would be the only regional airline, now we have GGN as well, thanks buddy!
ACPA has done a lot of damage over the years, maybe a little reflection would do you some good!
Regarding why the wife cheated, not really the point, we know why WJ started swoop and those pilots with so called character who capitalized on it are scum.
Yes you touched a nerve, Jazz had raised the bar for Regional flying and after outside forces, including your own cloak, you lumped us in with swoop blaming us for the industry woes, hypocrite.
Jumbo744 wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:32 pm Looking at Jazz payscales, it takes 13 years for a captain to make 103$/hour which is year 1 at Swoop.
Your point is taken, however you’re looking at the new payscale which is my point, my management and AC management will be salivating at swoops rates, there is no shortage of pilots when they agree to those wages.
The old payscale, a Captain at Jazz is making the same hourly, well 3 dollars less than a swoop captain at 5 years, myself well above that, what effect do you think this will have on pilot wages overall?
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flyzam
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by flyzam »

mbav8r wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:09 am
Regarding why the wife cheated, not really the point, we know why WJ started swoop and those pilots with so called character who capitalized on it are scum.
Yes you touched a nerve, Jazz had raised the bar for Regional flying and after outside forces, including your own cloak, you lumped us in with swoop blaming us for the industry woes, hypocrite.
You really need to calm down a bit and stop attacking everyone you see. Your posts are so full of anger which totally distracts from the points you are trying to make.

The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn – Alvin Toffle
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Last edited by flyzam on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
sicamore
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by sicamore »

mbav8r wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:09 am
cloak wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:56 pm Seems like my comments touched some raw nerves which just proved my point! Much of the ramblings comes from "other" pilots who forget their own contributions to the profession...it is what it is, they're just cogs in the wheel, we get it, but those living in glass houses should not throw stones....nuff said!
Ok, glad you said this because it appears that you are an AC pilot.
Did you vote yes to “steal” the RJs from Jazz years ago?
Did you support the SR start up, you know the removal of scope that Jazz would be the only regional airline, now we have GGN as well, thanks buddy!
ACPA has done a lot of damage over the years, maybe a little reflection would do you some good!
Regarding why the wife cheated, not really the point, we know why WJ started swoop and those pilots with so called character who capitalized on it are scum.
Yes you touched a nerve, Jazz had raised the bar for Regional flying and after outside forces, including your own cloak, you lumped us in with swoop blaming us for the industry woes, hypocrite.
Jumbo744 wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:32 pm Looking at Jazz payscales, it takes 13 years for a captain to make 103$/hour which is year 1 at Swoop.
Your point is taken, however you’re looking at the new payscale which is my point, my management and AC management will be salivating at swoops rates, there is no shortage of pilots when they agree to those wages.
The old payscale, a Captain at Jazz is making the same hourly, well 3 dollars less than a swoop captain at 5 years, myself well above that, what effect do you think this will have on pilot wages overall?
Jazz is a regional airline. In no way should it be a career airline with high pay. I know you will disagree with that, but I will counteract that you are biased.

Somehow they got high pay rates for flying turbo props and small jets around and the market corrected the situation.

And you go around blaming everybody and their cow in a heated and insulting manner unbecoming a Captain.

Yes yes, I know, I am a hypocrite. your favorite word slung at everyone else. Jazz is the best airline, and everyone else is responsible for taking away your great pay and benefits. "I'm perfect, everyone else is evil nah nah"

If you hadn't been drinking the cool aid at Jazz your whole career and got out a little more, you'd realize that they have not come through the years without gathering a little mud.
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jjj
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by jjj »

Some interesting and divergent points of view out there. I have read them all and appreciate the discussion.

No Swabs in my jump-seat.

JJJ
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mbav8r
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by mbav8r »

sicamore wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 am
mbav8r wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:09 am
cloak wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:56 pm Seems like my comments touched some raw nerves which just proved my point! Much of the ramblings comes from "other" pilots who forget their own contributions to the profession...it is what it is, they're just cogs in the wheel, we get it, but those living in glass houses should not throw stones....nuff said!
Ok, glad you said this because it appears that you are an AC pilot.
Did you vote yes to “steal” the RJs from Jazz years ago?
Did you support the SR start up, you know the removal of scope that Jazz would be the only regional airline, now we have GGN as well, thanks buddy!
ACPA has done a lot of damage over the years, maybe a little reflection would do you some good!
Regarding why the wife cheated, not really the point, we know why WJ started swoop and those pilots with so called character who capitalized on it are scum.
Yes you touched a nerve, Jazz had raised the bar for Regional flying and after outside forces, including your own cloak, you lumped us in with swoop blaming us for the industry woes, hypocrite.
Jumbo744 wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:32 pm Looking at Jazz payscales, it takes 13 years for a captain to make 103$/hour which is year 1 at Swoop.
Your point is taken, however you’re looking at the new payscale which is my point, my management and AC management will be salivating at swoops rates, there is no shortage of pilots when they agree to those wages.
The old payscale, a Captain at Jazz is making the same hourly, well 3 dollars less than a swoop captain at 5 years, myself well above that, what effect do you think this will have on pilot wages overall?
Jazz is a regional airline. In no way should it be a career airline with high pay. I know you will disagree with that, but I will counteract that you are biased.

Somehow they got high pay rates for flying turbo props and small jets around and the market corrected the situation.

And you go around blaming everybody and their cow in a heated and insulting manner unbecoming a Captain.

Yes yes, I know, I am a hypocrite. your favorite word slung at everyone else. Jazz is the best airline, and everyone else is responsible for taking away your great pay and benefits. "I'm perfect, everyone else is evil nah nah"

If you hadn't been drinking the cool aid at Jazz your whole career and got out a little more, you'd realize that they have not come through the years without gathering a little mud.
Of course, as you pointed out I am biased but really what is your justification that Regional should not be a career job?
Given our entire industry has seniority handcuffs and we start over at the bottom every single time we move regardless of experience, what’s your logic here. I know why a CEO would think that but how does a pilot come to this conclusion?
Yes, I share some of the blame, after over two decades of turning down subpar job offers, never signing a bond, being a CP who made sure that the pilots were not pressured to doing anything unsafe, when faced with a choice of agreeing to a “B” scale contract, I voted yes out of self preservation. I’ve watched pilots crawl over each other over and over and have just simply got sick of it.
It might surprise posters on here, I’m not an angry person and I treat everybody with respect regardless of how I feel about their choices, in the airport I will smile and say hi to any pilot walking by, whatever uniform they wear. I would tell them how I feel in as polite a way as possible should they ever ask. The nice thing here is I can voice my frustration anonymously however I feel like, I don’t do it to troll.
Regarding, the WPDL, this is one thing the WJ pilots got right with regards to Encore and I support their efforts to try and stop the spiral dive we’re in, despite airlines south of us giving out significant raises, we here agree to a complete opposite 40% pay cut, then some pilots support this, I don’t get it.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

Anyone remember when the Jazz pilots flying the 757 were the lowest paid in North America? They made even less than the Skyservice guys before them.
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by av8ts »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am Anyone remember when the Jazz pilots flying the 757 were the lowest paid in North America? They made even less than the Skyservice guys before them.
Russia bot

Nobody else respond
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by True North »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am Anyone remember when the Jazz pilots flying the 757 were the lowest paid in North America? They made even less than the Skyservice guys before them.
Ignorant and uninformed.
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mbav8r
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by mbav8r »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am Anyone remember when the Jazz pilots flying the 757 were the lowest paid in North America? They made even less than the Skyservice guys before them.
Oh Johnny, you make me laugh, thanks again:)
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by FL007 »

mbav8r wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:23 am Regarding, the WPDL, this is one thing the WJ pilots got right with regards to Encore and I support their efforts to try and stop the spiral dive we’re in, despite airlines south of us giving out significant raises, we here agree to a complete opposite 40% pay cut, then some pilots support this, I don’t get it.
The ones who agree to the pay cuts are the people who aren't taking them, that's why, self preservation. B scale is a perfect example. Well other than regional to AC mainline fo, but that's a different story completely.

Everyone else is taking a pay and condition raise from say, ggn, to work at swoop which, while it served a purpose for that individual, it proved that humans will do whatever is in the best interest of themselves.

I wonder what I would do in a situation where I was stuck somewhere I hated, making not a lot, and an opportunity to fly something bigger for a more reputable company where I made more was available, though at a detriment to the industry.

I planned my career with the plethora of knowledge of peers to avoid companies who I felt exploited the desperation of pilots, so I'm in a great position.. However I know lots of guys/girls who couldn't deal when they were flying in the north, and took literally any job just to move back to the city, whereas patience could have given them long term happiness. Those are the people trying to squeak themselves into a long term career option after getting stuck somewhere and accepting shitty pay/conditions for so long.
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

mbav8r wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:14 am
JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am Anyone remember when the Jazz pilots flying the 757 were the lowest paid in North America? They made even less than the Skyservice guys before them.
Oh Johnny, you make me laugh, thanks again:)
Consider it free therapy. I have used that line on you so many times that it no longer provokes a hateful outburst! You’re welcome!
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by av8ts »

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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:40 pm
mbav8r wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:14 am
JohnnyHotRocks wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am Anyone remember when the Jazz pilots flying the 757 were the lowest paid in North America? They made even less than the Skyservice guys before them.
Oh Johnny, you make me laugh, thanks again:)
Consider it free therapy. I have used that line on you so many times that it no longer provokes a hateful outburst! You’re welcome!
What were those rates Johnny? Seen it referenced a few times, never seen numbers.

S.
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Last edited by schnitzel2k3 on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cloak
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by cloak »

It seems that a lot of (angry) comments come from outside WestJet, be it Jazz (not really sure why), be it Encore, in addition to the ones that presumably have been coming from a vocal minority at WestJet. It is all a choice how one spends one's precious time and energy. Keep in mind though, one also does attract more of the same energy that one puts out. Do some research on the effects of "anger" on one's health, it may be illuminating! When the sages of the past said to eschew all anger, they were saying it mainly for our own health, not to mention peace in society! Peace!
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Re: The End of the WPDL Confirmed

Post by musicalpilotchairs »

So that’s why junior T and his band of merry men (people😄) are legalizing pot. So we can be stupid numb and not care or get angry about what these clowns are doing.
It all makes sense now. Pass the bong.
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SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by RidersRule »

As per the interm order from Kaplan...

Swoop pilots will hold a position at the Hamilton base that their seniority allows...
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Last edited by RidersRule on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by JLA »

Victory! Well done westjet pilots from the other side ;)
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Hangry »

I don’t think he’ll be nearly as smug today. Hope you like that right seat. Still more than he deserves but a reasonable decision nonetheless.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by FurHat »

It looks like they are all pay protected, so I imagine they won't be too upset.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by DropTanks »

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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by Ex DC10 Driver »

I can’t remember when I last enjoyed a thread topic description as much as this one!!
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by GRK2 »

Any chance that report can be linked or posted here? Thx.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by altiplano »

Great news, deserved.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by tbaylx »

RidersRule wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:13 am As per the interm order from Kaplan...

Swoop pilots will hold a position at the Hamilton base that their seniority allows...

Comments Tablyx...
Unexpected and causing a bit of a shitshow over here at the moment.
Gonna be an interesting week. I’m not in the airplane much anyways, too busy in the sim. I’m not sure how Kaplan intends to staff the training department here unless he expects more experienced WestJet captains to come over at mainline rates to do the training from Dec onwards.

Either way it doesn’t affect my pay and I don’t sit in either the left or right seat in the sim, so I’m good for now. Our contract doesn’t freeze us at $103 an hour, we step up to level 3 so that should continue and give guys lots of time to decide how they want to play it. As much as some of the children will gloat over this there are some pretty good experienced crew in the OTS group that Swoop really doesn’t want to lose.

To be honest it’s been really good for Swoop to have the Encore guys and now some WestJet upgrades come over. The guys we are seeing in the sim and online have all been pretty sharp given the experience levels. WestJet did all the recruiting screening for us and we likely wouldn’t have been able to attract as many good pilots if we’d have had to go off the street for all the hiring. However none have the experience to take over the training department duties and I doubt mainline guys that do have the experience are going to come over here at the current pay and crew scheduling setup

So either Kaplan intends to give you pay parity with mainline which also would be quite surprising, or he’s going to have to come up with a quick interim order #3 detailing how he intends to have the swoop training department staffed. Not sure he really thought that one out. It’ll be an interesting week for sure.
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Re: SWOOP OTS Captains punted from left seat...

Post by WeedPro2000 »

With this decision made, I see that Kaplan, in his ruling, refers to a creature known as the Westjet PIlot Seniority List. There is no such creature available in the last negotiated WJPA pilot agreement, nor have I been able to find such a creature available on any WJ internal resource. I'd like to see where I sit on a Westjet Pilot Seniority List. All I know is where I sit on a Westjet Pilot Departmenttal List, which is a different and soon to be extinct creature.
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