Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

[telex]

I'm sorry, but someone has to say it.

Variable tailwinds on final.

Re: Stalls into a headwind or Tailwind
Zaibatsu wrote: ↑Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:56 pm
Was it a variable tailwind?

Because that will definitely negatively affect the stall characteristics.

It’s perhaps one of the deadliest things we deal with in aviation.
A tailwind? Wha?

NOW I get it! haha

[PilotDAR]

I'm sorry, but someone has to say it.

Variable tailwinds on final.

It takes a lot to accept that mantle of responsibility - good on you Photofly!

[HiFlyChick]

The HIAA FB page said (and still says) runway 32 - hard to believe they could get it so wrong...

I wonder if they were doing the ILS for 14 because they didn't have RNAV capability...?

Didn't see the wx at the time of the "hard landing" (yep, the evening news actually called it that - we don't have accidents at YHZ, just hard landings), but I looked at the METARS a few hours later and it still had the one for 10z (about 45 min after accident):

METAR CYHZ 071200Z 23012KT 10SM BKN008 BKN014 OVC023 12/12 A2969 RMK SF5SC2SC1 SLP058 DENSITY ALT 600FT=
SPECI CYHZ 071137Z 23012KT 10SM BKN008 OVC014 12/12 A2969 RMK SF6SC2 SLP058 DENSITY ALT 600FT=
METAR CYHZ 071100Z 22013G18KT 8SM -DZ OVC008 13/13 A2967 RMK ST8 SLP050 DENSITY ALT 600FT=
SPECI CYHZ 071054Z 22012G19KT 8SM -DZ OVC008 13/13 A2967 RMK ST8 SLP051 DENSITY ALT 600FT=
SPECI CYHZ 071031Z 23016G21KT 10SM -DZ SCT009 OVC015 13/13 A2967 RMK SF4SC4 SLP051 DENSITY ALT 700FT=
SPECI CYHZ 071023Z 23013KT 12SM SCT007 SCT015 BKN070 OVC090 13/13 A2967 RMK SF3SC1AC3AC1 SLP050 DENSITY ALT 700FT=
METAR CYHZ 071000Z 23012G19KT 12SM -RA SCT006 BKN036 OVC070 13/13 A2967 RMK SF3SC2AC3 SLP051 DENSITY ALT 700FT=

The ILS for 23 is down, so if they couldn't do the RNAV, and that SCT 006 was BKN, the ILS 14 was all they had (except for diverting elsewhere - too bad they didn't take that option )

[HiFlyChick]

I don’t get why this airport waited till fall to do runway construction when all the fall windstorms show up. Now there won’t likely be any ILS approaches for a week or 2 till they clean up that giant mess.

They've been working on taxiways since the summer, and the runway for a while, too (can't recall exactly when they started, though). Earlier than that and they're into fog season, which tends to be more of a problem than the fall winds - it's just been windier this year than usual (or should I say there's been more windy days).

[Jet Jockey]

At the time of the landing they had an almost direct tailwind at 16kts gusting 21kts as reported by the tower on final.

The tower even questioned them with these winds if they were OK to land on RWY 14.

[HiFlyChick]

At the time of the landing they had an almost direct tailwind at 16kts gusting 21kts as reported by the tower on final.

The tower even questioned them with these winds if they were OK to land on RWY 14.

It wasn't from 230T/250M then?

[Inverted2]

I don’t get why this airport waited till fall to do runway construction when all the fall windstorms show up. Now there won’t likely be any ILS approaches for a week or 2 till they clean up that giant mess.

They've been working on taxiways since the summer, and the runway for a while, too (can't recall exactly when they started, though). Earlier than that and they're into fog season, which tends to be more of a problem than the fall winds - it's just been windier this year than usual (or should I say there's been more windy days).

Do you know what they're doing to runway 05/23? I fly in there regularly and I never see anyone actually working on it. I know they are re-paving some of the taxiways.

[Lightchop]

Is there a reason why the YHZ Live ATC feed exists from 0800-0830Z but from 0830-0930Z (the time this happened) it's "not found?"

[Jet Jockey]

At the time of the landing they had an almost direct tailwind at 16kts gusting 21kts as reported by the tower on final.

The tower even questioned them with these winds if they were OK to land on RWY 14.

It wasn't from 230T/250M then?

Tower: „SkyCube 4854, tailwind now 280 at 16 confirm gusting 21, confirm runway 14 still acceptable ?“

GG 4854: „Confirm..ah, still for 14.“

Tower: „SkyCube 4854 heavy, tower roger, wind 260 at 16 gusting 21 cleared to land on 14.“

GG 4854: „Cleared to land..ah.. affir..clear to land on 14, SkyCube 4854 heavy“

Tower: „Roger.“

…Tower: „SkyCube 4854 do you read ?“

GG 4854: „Halifax Tower, SkyCube 5854 is off the runway. Requesting full emergency assistance.“

Tower: „SkyCube 4854 Roger, emergency has been activated.“

At about 04:40L, about 30 minutes before the accident landing, Cargojet B757F (CJT626) landed on runway 14.
At about 04:50L, about 25 minutes before the accident landing, Morningstar (FDX) B757F (MAL8062) landed on runway 23.
At about 04:52L, about 23 minutes before the accident landing, a Learjet 35A landed on runway 23.

[HiFlyChick]

Do you know what they're doing to runway 05/23? I fly in there regularly and I never see anyone actually working on it. I know they are re-paving some of the taxiways.

I haven't actually seen the men working, just heard the warning of work on the runway prior to the displaced threshold. The HIAA site has info:

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2018/09/hal ... -underway/

At least alpha taxiway is open now so you don't have to wait to get out on 23 to taxi around the closed area.

[medi-whacked]

Fatigue and/or impairment may play into this. IMHO.

[lostaviator]

The live ATC archive does exist.... You want YHZ Twr archive for Nov 7 at 0900z.

Last wind by tower 260 16 -21 (10 knot tail, 19 cross component) at 2:50 into the clip.

Sounds like there was something else going on in that flight deck. Lots of radio hesitation.

Kudos to the controller - lots of trial balloons and calm throughout.

[CWhyYZ]

The live ATC archive does exist.... You want YHZ Twr archive for Nov 9 at 0900z.

Last wind by tower 260 16 -21 (10 knot tail, 19 cross component) at 2:50 into the clip.

Sounds like there was something else going on in that flight deck. Lots of radio hesitation.

Kudos to the controller - lots of trial balloons and calm throughout.

Lightchop is spinning in circles right now looking for crash audio on Nov 9.

I agree, there was some hesitation in the flight deck by the pilots response. His inflection in his voice almost sounded like he was asking a question when he read back the clearance.

Here lightchop:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/cyhz/ ... -0900Z.mp3

[lostaviator]

The live ATC archive does exist.... You want YHZ Twr archive for Nov 9 at 0900z.

Last wind by tower 260 16 -21 (10 knot tail, 19 cross component) at 2:50 into the clip.

Sounds like there was something else going on in that flight deck. Lots of radio hesitation.

Kudos to the controller - lots of trial balloons and calm throughout.

Lightchop is spinning in circles right now looking for crash audio on Nov 9.

I agree, there was some hesitation in the flight deck by the pilots response. His inflection in his voice almost sounded like he was asking a question when he read back the clearance.

Here lightchop:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/cyhz/ ... -0900Z.mp3

Oops. That’s what happens when I post pre-coffee. Haha.

Or maybe I did it on purpose because I find spoon-feeding publicly available answers to people so very very annoying (what was the weather, what are the notams in yhz, etc etc.)

[swordfish]

In the photographs available, the gear is not visible. Was the gear DOWN? begging the question that how did all 4 get wiped off.

[youhavecontrol]

For those that don't know, Transport Canada has a Flickr account where you can see more of the investigation photos. I subscribed and noticed they recently posted this:

Boeing 747-400F involved in the 7 November 2018 runway overrun at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, Nova Scotia by Transportation Safety Board of Canada, on Flickr

Boeing 747-400F involved in the 7 November 2018 runway overrun at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, Nova Scotia by Transportation Safety Board of Canada, on Flickr

Boeing 747-400F involved in the 7 November 2018 runway overrun at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, Nova Scotia by Transportation Safety Board of Canada, on Flickr

Boeing 747-400F involved in the 7 November 2018 runway overrun at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, Nova Scotia by Transportation Safety Board of Canada, on Flickr

[DanWEC]

Are crews getting kickbacks from the guys who repair ILS arrays in YHZ?? Keeping them busy!!

[trygg]

New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.

[C.W.E.]

Would that be considered a " long hard landing " ?

[HiFlyChick]

In the photographs available, the gear is not visible. Was the gear DOWN? begging the question that how did all 4 get wiped off.

There's an aerial pic in this article:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.4895103

Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down