Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

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telex
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by telex »

trygg wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
Welcome to the forum.

Most flightplans have an alternate airport. Always another option albeit not the popular one.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by rookiepilot »

trygg wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
Can't possibly have an ILS to each runway at one of Canada's major airports?
That would actually make sense.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by Eric Janson »

trygg wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
I don't fly this Type but I believe GPS is installed as standard.

The issue may be that they didn't have certification. I'm sure this will be covered in the report.

My Airline doesn't have approval for LPV or RNP approaches just RNAV(GNSS).
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by Teeg »

YHZ is working on the Overrun area at the threshold of 23, hence displaced threshold btw threshold 23 and just past taxiway E. Generally a pain in the ass without the CAT2 on our only RWY. Therefore the only non GPS approach is the ILS14; every other approach, b/c of this construction, is a GPS approach (LOC05 closed obviously).

Seems to me, long haul cargo, one coupled ILS approach, maybe they were empty, they shot the only "safe" approach. As mentioned before, this particular flight is in/out of YHZ regularly in the fall, and fall can be crap weather in YHZ.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by Roadrunnersmother »

Teeg wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:27 am YHZ is working on the Overrun area at the threshold of 23, hence displaced threshold btw threshold 23 and just past taxiway E. Generally a pain in the ass without the CAT2 on our only RWY. Therefore the only non GPS approach is the ILS14; every other approach, b/c of this construction, is a GPS approach (LOC05 closed obviously).

Seems to me, long haul cargo, one coupled ILS approach, maybe they were empty, they shot the only "safe" approach. As mentioned before, this particular flight is in/out of YHZ regularly in the fall, and fall can be crap weather in YHZ.

Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by Diadem »

Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
rigpiggy wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:35 am Anybody have the wx for the accident time?
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by lostaviator »

Diadem wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
rigpiggy wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:35 am Anybody have the wx for the accident time?
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
:prayer:
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by Roadrunnersmother »

Diadem wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
rigpiggy wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:35 am Anybody have the wx for the accident time?
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by telex »

Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 am
Diadem wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am

If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.
Do you have any guidance on maneuvering a 744 visually with the intent to land when the reported ceiling is below you?
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by jpilot77 »

Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 am
Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.

8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by DanWEC »

Could have just flown at 1000' from KORD, but then drop down to 700 in the zone in order to stay 500 below the deck, right Roadrunnersmother? But then how do you cross over the field and join mid-downwind of you aren't at 1000 agl? A real quandary. I wish I was a pilot.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by lostaviator »

Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 am
Diadem wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am

If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.


Let’s assume special vfr was an option for them. Please explain how they would legally descend from a cruise altitude and enter vfr conditions below the layer ?
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by ant_321 »

Even if they were visual, what are the chances their SOP’s would allow a night visual approach with no intrument guidance.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by youhavecontrol »

Special VFR sounds insane, but what about a circling approach? Would that even be a possibility in a B747? I'm guessing not just based on how massive they are.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by telex »

youhavecontrol wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:33 pm Special VFR sounds insane, but what about a circling approach? Would that even be a possibility in a B747? I'm guessing not just based on how massive they are.
It can be done but night circling in an OM will be covered and might be forbidden.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by lostaviator »

telex wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:19 pm
youhavecontrol wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:33 pm Special VFR sounds insane, but what about a circling approach? Would that even be a possibility in a B747? I'm guessing not just based on how massive they are.
It can be done but night circling in an OM will be covered and might be forbidden.
I have yet to work for an airline that allows circling approaches at circling minima. There is usually some kind of add 500 feet or make the FAF crossing your MDA kind of stuff. Though, circling a 747 would be kinda "fun"?

Side note... The weather I posted from the speci taken post accident was better then the hourly which had the SCT005 layer as a BKN005 layer. So we can probably stop talking about the whole "special vfr", circling stuff. Even if they COULD, the information they had at the time meant they had to a straight in to something.

And that runway.... It is one of the those runways that I am always extra attentive too after a long day, or long red eye. Short, sloped and we all know how the winds work around there.... a 10 knot tail wind component on the surface could very well be a 40 knot tailwind component until 50 feet.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by youhavecontrol »

lostaviator wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:28 pm ...could very well be a 40 knot tailwind component until 50 feet.
Now that I think about it... around the time of that accident, I was supposed to fly to Sydney and was looking at the GFA's which had a low level jet almost right over Halifax... moving East. The jet was 70kts with forecast moderate to severe turbulence and was supposed to be directly over Sydney at the time I was expected to arrive there. I certainly would not be surprised if wind shear was a factor. I saw the GFA and thought "nope" and changed my route.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by swordfish »

HiFlyChick wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm
swordfish wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:09 pm In the photographs available, the gear is not visible. Was the gear DOWN? begging the question that how did all 4 get wiped off.
There's an aerial pic in this article:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.4895103

Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
All I could see in the original photos was the front of the plane. Must have been an exciting ride for the lobsters - wiping out 4 landing gears and breaking the fuselage.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by swordfish »

HiFlyChick wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm [quote=Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
Sure does look like that, but where is the gear?? It's 8 feet high. They must be sunk into the mud.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

Post by C.W.E. »

All I could see in the original photos was the front of the plane. Must have been an exciting ride for the lobsters
Wouldn't they be picking up lobsters in Halifax, not delivering them?
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