Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
"All I could see in the original photos was the front of the plane. Must have been an exciting ride for the lobsters - wiping out 4 landing gears and breaking the fuselage."
Shaken, not stirred! Must have had some Chinese ware on board to supply the local Walmart to make it a productive inbound ?
Shaken, not stirred! Must have had some Chinese ware on board to supply the local Walmart to make it a productive inbound ?
- HiFlyChick
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I was wondering that myself - best guess is that it folded backwards but stayed attached for long enough that it's underneath the fuselage...? I can't imagine it would stay on (attached in the usual manner) and yet bury itself that far into the turfswordfish wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:03 pmSure does look like that, but where is the gear?? It's 8 feet high. They must be sunk into the mud.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm [quote=Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Even with the “better” 1200 ft ceiling after the accident, a visual approach was completely out of the question as ATC minimums for a visual are much higher than 1200 ft (these minimums are not published). A contact approach would have been a legal option, but I will not comment as to the wisdom of a contact approach in a 747 under those conditions.
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Look for lobster on sale at Walmart this week, since they couldn't get to China timely!
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
There is a lot of debris balled up around the aft end and in this photo you see one of the gear trucks at the very left:HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:52 pmI was wondering that myself - best guess is that it folded backwards but stayed attached for long enough that it's underneath the fuselage...? I can't imagine it would stay on (attached in the usual manner) and yet bury itself that far into the turfswordfish wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:03 pmSure does look like that, but where is the gear?? It's 8 feet high. They must be sunk into the mud.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm [quote=Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org ... 0a1b07.jpg
I think HFC is right, the rest is back there somewhere with the antenna array, lights and a few other things that'll have to be replaced.
The TSB photos don't show much of the gear:
https://flic.kr/p/NYmGtP
Even with their misfortune, the crew was really lucky they stopped where they did, if they had made it to the road the stop wouldn't have been quite as gentle. You don't see it but there's a fair slope down into the ditch between the fence & the road.
D
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Yup, the importer has an office at YHZ.
D
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Grapevine says that they weren't allowed RNAV per Ops Specs.Gilles Hudicourt wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:28 amI checked the plates. There are many variables, don’t know what their equipment and ops specs allow. Plus, one would also need to see the Notams, in case these modified the published minimums.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I wonder if they'll eventually realize that GPS approaches are quite often the safest approach available. TC is making the industry less safe by the cumbersome process operators are required to undergo to gain GPS and LPV approach approval.
- rookiepilot
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Non commercial pilot's opinion:
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
If the only useable approach has a tailwind component the exceeds the maximum then it's time to find another airport imho.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:31 pm Non commercial pilot's opinion:
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
Unclear if landing performance was calculated but when this is marginal you have to be on speed and touch down at the correct point. High speed/long landing is a go-around.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I get it, always pilots responsibility.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:21 pmIf the only useable approach has a tailwind component the exceeds the maximum then it's time to find another airport imho.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:31 pm Non commercial pilot's opinion:
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
Unclear if landing performance was calculated but when this is marginal you have to be on speed and touch down at the correct point. High speed/long landing is a go-around.
When I look at YHZ I don't see a world class airport, I see compromise.
Strange for an airport that regularly sees heavies landing there.
Why is this?
Does one fly into Dubai (I haven't looked) and 2 of 4 runways don't have an ILS? JFK?
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Putting in more ILSs at this point in time would be as foolish as TC deciding in the last few years to push SCDA approaches. Pre-GPS would've been the time to push SCDA, and pre-GPS would've been the time to install more ILSs (not that I necessarily agree that they should have more ILSs). If operators won't spend the money to upgrade their technology to stuff that's been around for decades, then they should expect to spend the money when their aircraft have to go to their alternate (that the pilot's didn't go to the alternate is another problem altogether).
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Agree with you about Halifax - the ILS should be on 32 imho. Adding a few thousand feet would be a good idea as well imho.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:35 pmI get it, always pilots responsibility.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:21 pmIf the only useable approach has a tailwind component the exceeds the maximum then it's time to find another airport imho.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:31 pm Non commercial pilot's opinion:
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
Unclear if landing performance was calculated but when this is marginal you have to be on speed and touch down at the correct point. High speed/long landing is a go-around.
When I look at YHZ I don't see a world class airport, I see compromise.
Strange for an airport that regularly sees heavies landing there.
Why is this?
Does one fly into Dubai (I haven't looked) and 2 of 4 runways don't have an ILS? JFK?
Dubai has ILS on all 4 runways.
JFK is a poor example - it's like a Third World Airport. Fly an offset VOR/DME approach for 22L.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I'm thinking of Halifax weather too in my comments.Eric Janson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:24 am
Agree with you about Halifax - the ILS should be on 32 imho. Adding a few thousand feet would be a good idea as well imho.
Dubai has ILS on all 4 runways.
JFK is a poor example - it's like a Third World Airport. Fly an offset VOR/DME approach for 22L.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Does it really make sense comparing Halifax to Dubai?
Halifax moves about 4m passengers a year, whereas Dubai moves 88m.
Halifax moves about 4m passengers a year, whereas Dubai moves 88m.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
YHZ is my neck of the woods, although been away from the aviation business past number of years I thought ole Robert Stanfield International was adequately covered for approaches. It has 2 ILS which includes a CAT 11 perhaps a CAT111 there now- I don’t keep an update CAP. Also I thought each runway is served with a GPS approach that has WAAS LPV that supports vertical guidance down to 200ft again I may be wrong on that. I do know from yrs back NAV CAN upgraded the many ILS and there was no BC capability so GPS were designed with vertical guidance. I don’t think anybody can blame the airport nor NAV CAN if some airlines and operators do not have the necessary avionics to support what is available at YHZ.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:54 pm Putting in more ILSs at this point in time would be as foolish as TC deciding in the last few years to push SCDA approaches. Pre-GPS would've been the time to push SCDA, and pre-GPS would've been the time to install more ILSs (not that I necessarily agree that they should have more ILSs). If operators won't spend the money to upgrade their technology to stuff that's been around for decades, then they should expect to spend the money when their aircraft have to go to their alternate (that the pilot's didn't go to the alternate is another problem altogether).
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
ILS's are going the way of the ndb. Over the next number of years they will be phased out in favour of RNAV RNP approaches. If an airline chooses not to be RNAV capable that will be tantamount to only having an NDB approach available to you today. As pilot's if companies don't give you the necessary equipment to get in in certain weather conditions then that's what we have alternates for.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enginee ... tor_system
Over 100 installed in the US. Not aware of any in Canada.
Over 100 installed in the US. Not aware of any in Canada.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Why would they spend all of that money on an ILS on 32, when the RNAV gets you down to 200 AGL?Eric Janson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:24 am Agree with you about Halifax - the ILS should be on 32 imho. Adding a few thousand feet would be a good idea as well imho...
In terms of extending the length, they just spent a bunch increasing the length of 23....
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Nav Canada's tech watch publication indicates a 10 yr life-cycle ILS replacement cycle which the last phase to be completed this year(2018) a good many replacements have been done. Not sure ILS is is going the way of NDB approaches yet.An informed source at NC said this life-cycle is good to 2040 as new systems are quite good. Don't think RNAV-RNP is as good as CAT 111 with the various A and B limits but then again there are better informed that me on this.tbaylx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:19 am ILS's are going the way of the ndb. Over the next number of years they will be phased out in favour of RNAV RNP approaches. If an airline chooses not to be RNAV capable that will be tantamount to only having an NDB approach available to you today. As pilot's if companies don't give you the necessary equipment to get in in certain weather conditions then that's what we have alternates for.