C series

[Speedalive]

Looks like the CSeries, errr A220, is in the Navi magazine now! Any new developments at AC about possible routes? I saw YVR-BOS, Eastern Canada-Europe, and Hawaii mentioned in an older interview article with Ben Smith.

Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early.

Not sure if there’s a business case for it with the train service from Heathrow to London, but it would be really neat to see AC start YYZ-YUL-LCY!

[schnitzel2k3]

Scope used to be 50 seats (with the F28/BAE146 grandfathered in).

On the positive note (for management) there will be almost 4 years for everybody to "Limbo" to see how low they can go.
Existing deals mean nothing as there are always contract openers and LOU's to be used. aka Sky Regional and Georgian jet flying as an example.

There is no limbo. The 10 year contract between ACPA and Air Canada signed last year has 3 re-openers, which can go to arbitration. However, having watched an arbitrator give the E175's away there is now language preventing scope from being an article to which an arbitrator can rule over.

If you think there are any conditions ACPA would negotiate away roughly 1000 positions, you're crazy.

I'm not sure where the sentiment that the regionals deserve a 'share' of these aircraft comes from? A 150 seat aircraft with a range of 3000+nm isn't a regional airplane. These will be good paying mainline jobs, this is a good thing for pilots.

Agreed!

S.

[daedalusx]

As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.

[Lightchop]

As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.

As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.

[goleafsgo]

As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.

As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.

It's cause it (used to be) a bombardier product and bombardier=regional in most people's minds. Maybe now that it's airbus that mindset will slowly go away?

On a side note, how is an RJ flying YVR-ORD "regional"?

[Lightchop]

As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.

As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.

It's cause it (used to be) a bombardier product and bombardier=regional in most people's minds. Maybe now that it's airbus that mindset will slowly go away?

On a side note, how is an RJ flying YVR-ORD "regional"?

Don't ask me. I don't fly the jet anymore but I was always asking the same thing about ORD, DFW even YWG out of YVR. SAN could even be thrown in there. Hardly "regional." Jazz is more like a trans continental airline now. RJ pilots can start their day in YVR and finish in YYT.

[rudder]

Battles over Express scope has done nothing but waste bargaining capital and lower the bar. Management must be giddy over the labour benefits it derives from watching pilots fight with other pilots.

If the pilots would stop fighting and instead begin to work together it should not be that difficult to come up with reasonable limits on the the size and number of aircraft that can have the word ‘EXPRESS’ painted on the side.

C-series are mainline aircraft. E190’s are mainline aircraft. And there are just a couple of products out there that are mission capable and economically viable at 76 seat/multi class configuration. Not much to fight over. AC could already be subcontracting many more 76 seat jets to Express operators but sees no commercial reason to do so.

These are good days for AC pilots and aspiring AC pilots, many of whom will come from the ranks of the Express carriers. Time to open a meaningful dialogue and lift all of the boats.

[altiplano]

AC already operates a higher ratio of CPA:Mainline departures/flying than any other legacy airline in North America.

C-series are AC aircraft. Period. There is no battling required...

[sepia]

Looks like the CSeries, errr A220, is in the Navi magazine now! Any new developments at AC about possible routes? I saw YVR-BOS, Eastern Canada-Europe, and Hawaii mentioned in an older interview article with Ben Smith.

Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early.

Not sure if there’s a business case for it with the train service from Heathrow to London, but it would be really neat to see AC start YYZ-YUL-LCY!

the AC fins wont be coming ETOPS ready, so you can rule out Hawaii and LCY.

[Gino Under]

C Series recently completed ETOPS cert. Air Canada ‘should’ get aircraft that are Cat IIIb Autoland capable and ETOPS capable, (I believe 180 minutes) if that’s what they’ve ordered. Especially if the aircraft aren’t delivered till December 2019.
CSeries in an all business class config (42 pax) is a very good business case should AC decide something along those lines to serve EGLC.
The aeroplane could also be used to revise “regional” flying if AC so chooses. They could seriously reduce the size of the “Express” brand. Easily.
Jet Blue are fired up. Can’t wait to put it into service. The economics alone have them drooling.
It seems that the fog of uncertainty surrounding the Cseries is starting to clear and Airbus have even mentioned the possibility of a 500 series, that it (A250) could one day replace the A320 line.

Gino

[altiplano]

Might as well fire up the Concorde...

London City with an all business CS isn't happening...

[Gino Under]

I'm not saying it's something Air Canada intends on doing. All Business Class in an A318 worked for BA. Why wouldn't it work for Air Canada?
The A220 has superior economics to an A318. Concorde isn't even close when it comes to DOC, but "time is money".

Gino

[Lightchop]

I'm not saying it's something Air Canada intends on doing. All Business Class in an A318 worked for BA. Why wouldn't it work for Air Canada?
The A220 has superior economics to an A318. Concorde isn't even close when it comes to DOC, but "time is money".

Gino

Because they were flying to new york not toronto.

[Speedalive]

There's got to be a decent amount of demand for YYZ-LON. AC alone has 4 wide-body flights from YYZ-LHR + competing service from the likes of BA, WS, TS, etc. I think re-configuring the Cseries to all business is a little out there, but I could see YYZ-LCY with a tech stop in YUL with the standard seating config. The A220 has the range for it and AC already serves a similar destination, catchment wise (YTZ). So they would have some experience marketing a destination like LCY. There's also a ton of connection opportunities on the YYZ side. You could basically get from downtown London to anywhere in Canada/US depending on the timing, and that wouldn't just appeal to business travelers, but perhaps also tourists who spend most of the time in the city, which would help fill the Y cabin.

It probably won't happen, but it's fun to think about.

[Gino Under]

C Series isn’t going to compete with anybody (to London) on peak hours out of YYZ or YUL. That’s not news. Off hours presents a different opportunity all together. Any aircraft configured with 42 J class seats is a tough sell on a good day. Planning, marketing, and schedule however could help rake in some good bucks for AC. Surely, it’s easier to entice 42 business class travellers than 200+ lowest-fare-possible budget travellers. Even for AC.
Leave YYZ 7:30 am and arrive in LCY around supper time, rested. Depart LCY a few days later, around 7:00 pm, get into YYZ near midnight.
Speaking from experience, those timings really help with jet lag.

But you’re right, it’s fun to speculate while realizing at the same time, it’s not likely to happen.

Gino

[WF9F]

Air Canada is not doing any ETOPS with the A220.
Only narrow body doing ETOPS at Mainline is the 737...
Official word from the A220 guys..
There will be no LCY!!
We have enough seats to LHR and take the train or a taxi to downtown!!

[altiplano]

C Series isn’t going to compete with anybody (to London) on peak hours out of YYZ or YUL. That’s not news. Off hours presents a different opportunity all together. Any aircraft configured with 42 J class seats is a tough sell on a good day. Planning, marketing, and schedule however could help rake in some good bucks for AC. Surely, it’s easier to entice 42 business class travellers than 200+ lowest-fare-possible budget travellers. Even for AC.
Leave YYZ 7:30 am and arrive in LCY around supper time, rested. Depart LCY a few days later, around 7:00 pm, get into YYZ near midnight.
Speaking from experience, those timings really help with jet lag.

But you’re right, it’s fun to speculate while realizing at the same time, it’s not likely to happen.

Gino

AC already run the "Day tripper, 868" on about that schedule, about an 08:30 departure out of YYZ, arrives in LHR in time for evening dinner and drinks. Depart LHR after supper and late arrival in YYZ...

It's a great flight from a crew perspective - normal sleep cycle - and serves primarily those staying in London/Toronto as there are fewer connection options available with those arrival times.

Even with the great CS economics, a full 787-9 with 30 in business, another 20 in premium economy and another 250 or so in economy has even better economics...

vs. London City? Where you have to start a new base with employees, managers, gates, desks, maintenance, etc., just to poach the most lucrative passengers out of your already prime time service that you make more money on... it doesn't make sense...

For BA, they have a presence in the city airport already, it's just one more flight, staff are in place anyway, they can even run connections through there to other routes...

Agreed, fun to think about... but not feasible...

[yycflyguy]

Air Canada is not doing any ETOPS with the A220.
Only narrow body doing ETOPS at Mainline is the 737...
Official word from the A220 guys..
There will be no LCY!!
We have enough seats to LHR and take the train or a taxi to downtown!!

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe no LCY, but I fully expect it to do secondary market ETOPs flying. Time will tell.

[WF9F]

There is no ETOPS certification for the A220.....

[Gino Under]

The CSeries/A220 is ETOPS certified for 180 minutes.
Korean Air Lines will use it to serve Japan from Seoul.
Up to Air Canada.

Gino