Ratherbe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:18 am
altiplano wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:47 am
"You doubt very much", and that's the problem. Where are your legal opinions coming from? Why don't you think we would succeed.?
We have lawyers that are sitting on their tenure in ACPA and were happy to settle for costs... ie. pay themselves. If those guys weren't working for us they'd be in practice with Lionel Hutz...
You have a concessionary attitude that you don't think we deserve to make gains.
"Steady gains in '96"
What have you done for me LATELY. 20+ years ago? FCS be a break
"great scope clause"
We operate more CPA flying/departures than any other network airline in North America. We have a B scale airline that is doing a growing proportion of our best flying.
It's being chipped away at every time ACPA goes to the table... and even in between formal negotiations with unilaterally agreed MOAs between our Greivance/MEC chairs and the company and without membership input.
"protected our pension"
Are you joking?
"Ratherbe"... at the cottage? Maybe that's why you are missing the spiral dive we have been falling to pull out of.
I agree negotiated settlements are best, but not at any price, certainly not at the price of the continued decline.
I notice that when you start losing an argument you retreat to insults...very clever.
It would be naive beyond words not to heed the advise of our lawyers and instead put trust in rhetoric like yours.
I believe that we do deserve to make gains. However we need to have a good strategy not just thrust with no vector.
For pilots rouge is not B-scale as many of the pilots are the highest paid in the entire airline - gross pay and total hourly rate too (see the discussion on the ac forum). It’s a fact that many are getting paid more than B777 captains. But the main advantage to us are the jobs that rouge protects and the fact that many of the routes are brought into mainline if successful. KIX, HNL, OGG, KOA, FCO, DUB, ALG, for example and there are likely some I have missed.
RCA’s were a big deal back in 2000 (a third of my pension will come from AC general revenue) and with all the concessions during FOS our DB’s are more secure than they’ve been for a long time.
Not a Blue Rodeo fan I guess? Let me guess The Cure? jk
Retreat to insults? Where? Because I likened our LRD to Lionel Hutz? Not far off as far as I can tell, but c'mon get over it.
Losing an argument? Hardly. You have provided nothing substantive in this exchange. Nothing.
You are clinging to ideas of gains that were made 20 years ago and are now gone. You are dismissing FACTS which I have provided, and legal precedent for how we would have been successful as rhetoric, while offering no counter argument except "trust the lawyers" who I submit have provided sub-par performance of their duties and is evidenced by how far back we have gone.
And you're editing/redacting and cherry picking my statements for your quotes...
I have fixed it for you.
And why don't you answer my question:
"You doubt very much", and that's the problem. Where are your legal opinions coming from? Why don't you think we would succeed.?
You say that you think we deserve gains, so where are they? All I am seeing is concessionary contracts, one after another and concessions thrown in-between with MOAs for good measure. Where are the gains? Seriously? Everything is "quid pro quo" - it seems when KV learned that expression it became a favourite of his - and most of what we get disappears as fleets change, wording turns out weak, or the corporation argues the intention. Meanwhile what we give balloons into something we never could have imagined...
Now you introduce the outliers for "highest paid pilots are at rouge" "many are earning more than 777 Captains" - Yes, there are a few high earners at the LCC, but it is not "many" as you submit.
They are outliers and in statistics get excluded from a data pool. Higher average earnings and higher earners are at Mainline.
You bring in: "the jobs that rouge protects" - our scope is what protects our jobs. 320 and 767 flying belongs to us. Full stop.
It didn't require dividing the membership and creating a 2-tier wawcon to increase seat density, hire new FAs, and paint the planes red.
Ratherbe wrote:RCA’s were a big deal back in 2000 (a third of my pension will come from AC general revenue) and with all the concessions during FOS our DB’s are more secure than they’ve been for a long time.
Here we get to it.
YOUR DB.
1/3 of our membership is now without that secure DB that you are willing to do anything to protect. I don't think you care enough for the state you leave the contract for the people behind you. How many years do you have left? Better take the money and run soon because that secure DB is going to wither. I wished we got a better TBP because I'm pretty sure those of us left on DB in 10 or more years time will have to abandon it as it falls out of priority to improve or protect as the membership shifts to a TBP majority.
I'll say it again: I agree negotiated settlements are best, but not at any price, certainly not at the price of the continued decline.
For the record I have liked a lot of music over the years, Blue Rodeo and the Cure are both among them.