Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

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The5chord
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Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by The5chord »

Seems like an obvious way to create a barrier to entry that could put more demand for experienced pilots?
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valleyboy
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by valleyboy »

I agree, it would be beneficial to all after a little initial pain for the operators. You talk to any chief pilot or training guy the first thing out of their mouth is the lack of experience in the right seat.
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Rowdy
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by Rowdy »

And strengthen and update the A requirements here. The exams are a farce.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by goingnowherefast »

Everything I hear is people complaining about how hard it is to get an ATPL. Need PIC time, yet they have 2000hrs right seat on a Dash/ATR. Should be good enough in their minds.

FO time is great, and not discounting it's value, but it's different than being PIC. No replacement for actual command experience. Best to learn how to do that in a King Air, not a Q400
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by Rowdy »

I get a kick out of anyone thinking 1500hrs ion the right seat should grant them an A. Umm.. It wasn't that long ago that it was 1500hrs PIC.. with FO time only counting as 1/2. Which meant most career FO's needed 3000hrs TT.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by goingnowherefast »

I'd be okay if FO time counted at 1/2 towards ATPL license PIC time requirements. Better than people logging co-pilot time as dual, because people did that to avoid the 1/2 credit rule. FOs bear some responsibility, unlike dual that's a complete training environment.

In some cases FOs have the tougher job of standing up to bone-headed captains.
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digits_
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by digits_ »

valleyboy wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:05 pm
I agree, it would be beneficial to all after a little initial pain for the operators. You talk to any chief pilot or training guy the first thing out of their mouth is the lack of experience in the right seat.
That can be fixed without such a regulation.

What would happen if an ATPL becomes mandatory? Operators would have to pay more to attract ATPL holders to be an FO.

That's something that operators can do right away: if they pay more, they'd be able to attract higher time FOs.

The chief pilot or operator shouldn't complain about the lack of experience if the FO is being paid 35k/year. What do they expect, honestly.
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The5chord
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Re: Why aren’t unions pushing for FAA ATP req?

Post by The5chord »

Chief pilots do what owners tell them to keep their jobs. Operators don’t pay more because they can still find someone to fill the job. The result being less upward pressure on wages.

You might wish companies would do something on their own but they won’t until they have to.

I would think unions could make an argument to the public about the standards being “less safe” in Canada to the gen pop to provide public support for it. ALPA is always touting how much politics clout they have.
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