CUPE and now CALDA

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av8r374
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by av8r374 »

Diadem wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:34 am
av8r374 wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:31 pm I definitely support the unionization of pilots and dispatchers but we have to be tactful and methodical in our pursuit for better. We do not want to destroy the very thing we are trying to improve. After all, the whole point of the various drives is to preserve the future of our industry.
Isn't that the point of negotiations? How does one begin to improve one's situation with the attitude of "Well, I'd better not rock the boat or the company might suffer! I'll just sit back and wait for something to happen."
av8r374 wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:31 pm The unfortunate coincidence of this pursuit with a tough financial environment leaves the company very exposed to the elements. Too much pressure in one or another area can have disastrous consequences in the long run,
In the last quarter, revenues were up 2.8% year-over-year, and loads were up 1.1% year-over-year. Management tried to blame the pilots for the loss, but it's pretty hard to pin it on the threat of labour action when more passengers ended up flying. The only reason there's a tough financial environment is because of mismanagement.
Not remotely suggesting that anybody sits back and wait for something to happen. My pasta analogy was we have to pick and choose our battles. At what point does what we demand become protection/preservation vs. greed? Greed that could do some serious long term damage. Some of those battles can wait until the company rides out tougher times and we are able to safely steer clear of those storms.

Fuel costs went up way more than revenue did and that was probably the biggest cause of the loss. A lot of that revenue growth was unprofitable revenue as well. You cannot ignore the fact that the labour dispute contributed to the tough financial environment as did poor management. It's time we stopped pointing fingers and take accountability for our own actions before we seek accountability from anyone else. The threat of labour action was a necessary step but it did hurt the company.
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Go Guns
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by Go Guns »

You cannot ignore the fact that the labour dispute contributed to the tough financial environment as did poor management.
There's no question the labour dispute contributed to the loss. The question is, what brought us to a labour dispute? What took a 62% yes vote for ALPA, to a 91% strike vote? What caused long time, loyal westjetters, who've bled teal for the majority of their time there, to vote for yes to a strike they knew would hurt the company (and their own financial portfolio likely)?
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WeedPro2000
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by WeedPro2000 »

Hurtin’ Albertan, as a token of the appreciation for your kind words regarding my jumping safely, here are two photos of my WingNut helmet with tinfoil removed. I had good success yesterday and was able to mount my AR glasses inside of the visor. This is a huge win for me. If Skydive Toronto is open tomorrow I’ll take the WingNut for a flight.

I also attached a photo of the WingNut’s probe attached to an airplane I used for calibration of its airspeed calculation.

Have a great day HA!
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Eric Janson
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by Eric Janson »

aerobod wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:01 am
Eric Janson wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:28 am
rudder wrote: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:04 am And the dominoes keep falling.....no front line WJ employee trusts WJ senior management anymore and are all looking for enforceable CBA’s to protect their WAWCON and benefits.

As I said in another post, there will be significant change. Company programs that have run for years will be scaled back or closed to the unionized employees. That is not necessarily a bad thing. They will be replaced with negotiated and enforceable income and retirement provisions.

WJ senior management are accountable to the WJ BOD. The WJ BOD has a fiduciary obligation to the WJ shareholders. It has become increasingly obvious that the WJ BOD no longer see employees as owners.
A quick question from an outsider.

Since the WJ employees own a % of WJ Stock could they form a Shareholders Association and get a seat on the WJ BOD?

This would seem to be the smart thing to do.
The employee association (that represents non-union, non-management employees) has a member on the Board and always has done, currently this is Brad Armitage. From a shareholder perspective, the largest institutional shareholder has 10% of the stock and doesn't have a seat on the board, they hold more than all the non management employees put together.
Thanks for the info - very interesting.
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Diadem
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by Diadem »

av8r374 wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:34 am Not remotely suggesting that anybody sits back and wait for something to happen. My pasta analogy was we have to pick and choose our battles. At what point does what we demand become protection/preservation vs. greed? Greed that could do some serious long term damage.
So why don't you wait to find out the results of the negotiations before you start criticizing them? You make it sound like even entering negotiations will damage the company, so the alternative would be to just do nothing. You can't know what's going to be awarded.
av8r374 wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:34 am Some of those battles can wait until the company rides out tougher times and we are able to safely steer clear of those storms.
If the pilots have to stop negotiating every time the company posts a loss, then management will start moving money around to create a loss any time an employee group wants to change their contract. "FAs want a raise? Sorry, we decided to pay off a loan on a Max early, and the company took a loss. Too bad, wait until things get better." It's one quarter, WestJet will survive.
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rigpiggy
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by rigpiggy »

Companies get the union they deserve
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accountant
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by accountant »

Diadem wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:34 am If the pilots have to stop negotiating every time the company posts a loss, then management will start moving money around to create a loss any time an employee group wants to change their contract. "FAs want a raise? Sorry, we decided to pay off a loan on a Max early, and the company took a loss. Too bad, wait until things get better." It's one quarter, WestJet will survive.
GUess you should stick to flying planes and not dealing with accounting.

Paying off a loan early is a balance sheet item and has zero effect on the profit and loss, unless there were to be a penalty for early payment (worse off), or the more likely scenario.... less interest paid on the loan (better off). It's simply a cash flow issue and would only be done if the return to the company (ie savings) is better to pay off the loan earlier than carrying it for a longer period. (Might be other constraints such as leverage, etc, but you get the point)

If the company posts a loss the market will dig into the underlying financials and figure out the root cause. Analysts tear the statements apart line by line and figure out what's going to stick in future periods (ie, fuel costs) and what's one time impacts (ie lost revenues due to uncertainty)
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FL410AV8R
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by FL410AV8R »

It would be really nice if we could see the costs of a certain senior executive's departure and the Swoop startup costs which came from WestJet's bank account since up until June 20th Swoop had no revenue.
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aerobod
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by aerobod »

FL410AV8R wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:37 pm It would be really nice if we could see the costs of a certain senior executive's departure and the Swoop startup costs which came from WestJet's bank account since up until June 20th Swoop had no revenue.
Swoop startup was treated as a project which will be capitalized over a period of time (likely 5 years), not in just one quarter, as dictated by IFRS rules. Gregg’s departure will involve a lot of the payment in immediate vesting of already allocated shares (RSUs, PSUs, etc), any cash payment will be in the quarterly report if it was paid in that quarter, as per IFRS accounting rules and reporting requirements, it is unlikely that it would have made a significant difference to the results.

Public companies in Canada that are required to report to IFRS rules have little leeway in what is financially reported and when, it is dictated for them.
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Rezy
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by Rezy »

aerobod wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:06 pm
FL410AV8R wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:37 pm It would be really nice if we could see the costs of a certain senior executive's departure and the Swoop startup costs which came from WestJet's bank account since up until June 20th Swoop had no revenue.
Swoop startup was treated as a project which will be capitalized over a period of time (likely 5 years), not in just one quarter, as dictated by IFRS rules. Gregg’s departure will involve a lot of the payment in immediate vesting of already allocated shares (RSUs, PSUs, etc), any cash payment will be in the quarterly report if it was paid in that quarter, as per IFRS accounting rules and reporting requirements, it is unlikely that it would have made a significant difference to the results.

Public companies in Canada that are required to report to IFRS rules have little leeway in what is financially reported and when, it is dictated for them.
All of employee severance costs are included in the quarterly earnings report. Greg’s severance was reported in Q1.
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BeechjetYKZ
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by BeechjetYKZ »

Is this just for the mainline Westjet dispatchers or for the Encore/Swoop groups as well? Do they even have separate dispatchers for the Encore/Swoop flights firstly?
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by Go Guns »

WestJet dispatch does Swoop. Encore has their own.
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The Tenth Man
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by The Tenth Man »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:11 am Unions for the win!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-ho ... -1.4781644

How’s an arbitrated agreement sounding now?
Huh. Lookee here.

:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: WeedPro2000
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Shady McSly
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by Shady McSly »

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flyinhigh
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Re: CUPE and now CALDA

Post by flyinhigh »

If Patting yourself on the back is what you need to stroke your ego, feel free.

When your done, its time to grow up.
The Tenth Man wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:10 pm
WeedPro2000 wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:11 am Unions for the win!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-ho ... -1.4781644

How’s an arbitrated agreement sounding now?
Huh. Lookee here.

:prayer: :prayer: :prayer: WeedPro2000
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