Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

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Old fella
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Old fella » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:12 pm

altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:33 am
Can you bid:
"Avoid flying with _____"?
That's a really useful bid right there.
Pardon my airline flying ignorance but wasn’t CRM training the intent to alleviate the “ avoid flying with... “ scenario because of past cockpit conflicts. I thought that kind of stuff was past history, how can well trained professionals not get along to the point “ I don’t want to work with him/her”.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Schooner69A » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:41 pm

"This site has been falling apart...for years..."


I'll call a BS on that one. Just because you disagree with something here doesn't mean that everyone else is out of step.

Remember, some people improve a group by their presence; some by their absence.


It's up to you to suss out your contribution...
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by North Shore » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:19 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:02 pm
Or maybe it's time to just leave this forum once and for all since the moderators don't seem to give a shit. Do what you're doing on literally any other forum gets you IP banned. This site is falling apart and has been for the last few years.
Whoa, nelly! Steady up there, Lightchop. Google ‘The Tenth Man,’ and you’ll see why he carries on as he does. As he hasn’t broken any forum rules yet, it’s difficult to justify banning him.
No-one if forcing you to read his posts, especially when you do have the option of adding him to your ‘foe’ list, and not seeing them.
We, on the other hand have to tediously wade through Every. Single. One. So my G.A.S factor is probably a lot higher than yours :wink:
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Schooner69A » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:58 pm

"No-one if forcing you to read his posts..."

Exactly! I peruse this board everyday; there are lots of posts I don't follow because the subject is not of any interest to me. But, that is no reason to ban those threads.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Alcoholism » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:39 pm

Confirmed, North Shore is another John personality. Funny how my negative posts don't get deleted, but a light humoured one does, eh mods. Guess what my posting habits will be from now on. RIP avcanada.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Hangry » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:54 pm

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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Alcoholism » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:42 pm

How's that Mods?
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:02 pm

No moderators seem to work on other forums.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Schooner69A » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:26 pm

Effin' amazing how everybody complains about a thread, but they keep coming back to it. Like magpies to a shiny object.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by neophyte » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:54 pm

“So why should I apply to WJ? All I see is some weirdo on the top of the seniority list getting angry at the rest of his coworkers for wanting to improve their working conditions.“

Why should WE be trying to convince YOU to join WJA? If you are interested in joining team teal - APPLY. If you think you’d be better off somewhere else - GOOD LUCK. It is a pilots market for the time being.

Your posts seem to have a certain aire about them. You will learn soon enough that this industry (and life in general) owes you nothing.

As KAG stated, AC seems to be the place to go these days. For how much longer, no one knows (I sure wouldn’t want to be in their bottom 10% when the music stops - and it will stop one day). If memory serves me, Transat had layoffs less than 3 years ago and Sunwing only recently stopped it’s foreign pilot program. No company is perfect.

Do us all a favour and check the attitude.

BE HUMBLE
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:39 am

neophyte, you missed the point of the whole thread
goingnowherefast wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:06 am
If the new contract is as bad as I've been hearing, sounds like WestJet is the new feeder for Transat, Sunwing and AC. Swoop can be a feeder for Flair.

I just assumed WJ management would see the pilot shortage, new duty regs coming and do what they can to make WJ an appealing company to fly for. Everybody else is struggling to recruit, now WJ is widely known for successfully screwing over their pilots. Not a good reputation to have right now.
neophyte wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:54 pm
Why should WE be trying to convince YOU to join WJA? If you are interested in joining team teal - APPLY. If you think you’d be better off somewhere else - GOOD LUCK. It is a pilots market for the time being
I'm not interested in joining team teal, and can't figure out why anybody would either, given the past year. That's not your problem though, it's a problem for WJ management. I'm just trying to figure out why WJ management doesn't want an industry competitive pilot contract when every other airline is hurting for pilots.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Schooner69A » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:19 am

"I'm just trying to figure out why WJ management doesn't want an industry competitive pilot contract when every other airline is hurting for pilots."


Given what's happened in the past year, I think that what WJ management WANTS is to do is pull a Ronald Reagan. :smt040

PS When I hear the term "industry competitive contract", all I see is :dollar:
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by neophyte » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:00 am

WJA doesn’t have a pilot retention/hiring problem yet. Time will tell if that that changes in the coming months. Any pilot hiring problem will manifest itself at WJE and WJ Link well before WJA.

WJ is well known for keeping costs as low as possible on all levels. This latest contract, like all previous agreements, is about COST for the company. I understand what you are saying about retention/ attracting new pilots. It is a concern for me as well. However, should crew shortages result, and flights get cancelled, those “costs” will be analyzed and dealt with (perhaps they open the contract early if it gets too bad).

When it becomes available, I encourage anyone to compare the new contract to the old agreement. From what I have seen, the gains have exceeded any losses. Does that mean it’s a good contract? Not necessarily.

The WJ MEC made no promises regarding the 1st contract. That said, I have flown with many P2P members or members of the various “pilot chat groups” that convinced themselves that we deserved Delta WAWACON after the dust settled. I believe Dec 21 was especially hard on that group of pilots. I was hoping for more than was awarded but that is the game. Please remember the MEC, and by extension the pilot group agreed to go to arbitration.

I fly for WJA so perhaps I see things with a teal hue. Can you explain how Sunwing or Transat is a better career move (as opposed to same but different). I have flown with multiple pilots from both, why did they make the leap to WJA if things were so good at their previous airline?

Interesting times for sure.

Neo
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by sstaurus » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:29 pm

neophyte wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:00 am
Any pilot hiring problem will manifest itself at WJE and WJ Link well before WJA.

That's already here... Guys are dropping like flies and there's hardly any one to replace them with. WJ is in the precarious position of having to hire more and more OTS, at the expense of guys at Encore by turning off the light at the end of the tunnel, causing more and more to leave. There is an experience drain going on.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by FL320 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:34 pm

neophyte wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:00 am

I fly for WJA so perhaps I see things with a teal hue. Can you explain how Sunwing or Transat is a better career move (as opposed to same but different). I have flown with multiple pilots from both, why did they make the leap to WJA if things were so good at their previous airline?
Because at one point we all think the grass is greener on the other side. I was really surprised to see some WJA pilots at Air Transat’s offices for interviews few weeks ago. Air Transat is a very nice place to work in my opinion. Pilots hired in 2014 are now upgrading on the widebody; and the company has been hiring non stop since (and about +100 to come).
Out of curiosity how long does it take from DOH to left seat B767/787 at WJ?
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by neophyte » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:27 pm

sstaurus wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:29 pm
[quote=neophyte post_id=<a href="tel:1064405">1064405</a> time=<a href="tel:1546444842">1546444842</a> user_id=5033]
Any pilot hiring problem will manifest itself at WJE and WJ Link well before WJA.

That's already here... Guys are dropping like flies and there's hardly any one to replace them with. WJ is in the precarious position of having to hire more and more OTS, at the expense of guys at Encore by turning off the light at the end of the tunnel, causing more and more to leave. There is an experience drain going on.
[/quote]

If I haven’t said so already, pilot retention is a major concern of mine, especially at WJE. Management has made it clear how valuable Encore is to the bottom line. If they start cancelling flights due to crew issues, profitability will decrease and we will see a response. We haven’t seen it yet but I’m sure we are closer mow than ever before.

That said, the stats don’t support your comments regarding OTS pilots at the present time. In the 3 last classes the breakdown of OTS to Encore flow is as follows:

July - 9 Encore - 9 OTS
Sept - 6 Encore - 4 OTS
Oct - 7 Encore - 5 OTS

This more than satisfies the 25% flow that is guaranteed in the encore agreement.

In the end Pilots will go where they feel the best opportunity exists for them. I have seen Encore pilots go to AC, and I have seen freshly flowed encore pilots at WJA go to Air Canada. Does this bother me? Definitely not. Go where you feel you will be happiest, or have the best career (preferably BOTH).

Best of luck in this game called aviation :rolleyes:
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by neophyte » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:02 pm

I am not surprised to hear of WJA pilots applying elsewhere, as you said, many think the grass is greener on the other side. Some will find success, others will wish they had stayed. Eg The 4 WJ FO that is hired Jan 2019 will do well at AT, the same 4 year FO that is hire #100 at AT will wish he/she stayed put.

In the end you won’t know how it all pans out until you near the end of your career. By that time, I hope you have figured out how to enjoy and appreciate both your time at work and more importantly your time AWAY from work.

To answer your final question (which I believe was rhetorical but I’ll bite). I can guarantee you that it will take longer than 4 years to go Capt on the 787 at any operator in North America (WestJet included). +1 for AT pilots.

Please don’t forget the precarious financial situation AT was in a few years ago. If I recall correctly , WJ considered buying them (cash deal) but ended up not wanting the problems associated with the merger of two unique cultures. As you are aware, WJ has chosen to start their own WB operation. Time will tell how that works out for us both.

Bonne chance :wink:
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by neophyte » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:35 pm

Thanks for the correction Bob. It will be difficult to maintain 50%
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Rezy » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:23 pm

neophyte wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:35 pm
Thanks for the correction Bob. It will be difficult to maintain 50%
The 50% is over the course of the entire contract (3 years). So they could flow 0% for the next year and still meet their contractual obligations. However, management has committed to 50% each class as long as they can.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by Lt. Daniel Kaffee » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:09 pm

In 2018 approximately 60-70 Westjet and Westjet Encore pilots left to join Air Canada.

Wow.

Add pilots that left for other carriers and I'd say Westjet has a significant issue.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by pacman007 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:49 pm

right now Westjet doesn't have problem with recruiting pilots. With the new contract they can reduce mainline pilots by 10%. SO 140 ish people can leave WJ mainline and they will be fine. if you ask me I think Westjet wants to lose 140 pilots, this is good for anyone at mainline because this helps the with the probability of layoffs.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by skybaron » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:25 pm

pacman007 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:49 pm
right now Westjet doesn't have problem with recruiting pilots. With the new contract they can reduce mainline pilots by 10%. SO 140 ish people can leave WJ mainline and they will be fine. if you ask me I think Westjet wants to lose 140 pilots, this is good for anyone at mainline because this helps the with the probability of layoffs.
:lol:

Yeah. Perhaps your statement would be accurate if it were the year 2001. WJ Holdings or whatever name they want to identify themselves as is hemorrhaging pilots these days.

I was told they’ve been cancelling flights due to lack of crew, especially Encore. Hardly sounds like they can afford or want to lose pilots.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by complexintentions » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:12 am

pacman007 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:49 pm
right now Westjet doesn't have problem with recruiting pilots. With the new contract they can reduce mainline pilots by 10%. SO 140 ish people can leave WJ mainline and they will be fine. if you ask me I think Westjet wants to lose 140 pilots, this is good for anyone at mainline because this helps the with the probability of layoffs.
It isn't just about numbers, it's about WHY so many people want to leave.

Only a manager or accountant would have such narrow thinking to actually believe that people wanting to leave a company is a good thing.

Not a good sign at all.
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:33 am

What is the current 2019 1st 2nd and 3rd year FO pay scale at WJ vs Swoop and how much does the typical swoop FO and WJ FO take home every two weeks? And talking specifically about their last job ad regarding Westjet/swoop, what is the likelihood that in the interview they will tell you it’s actually for Swoop and not mainline WJ? I had a buddy who took the captain upgrade at westjet and was surprised he did so quickly, but turns out it was for Swoop...
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Re: Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

Post by valleyboy » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:38 am

When I see threads like this all I can think is "welcome to the real world" Why is it that most pilots and likely age reflected as well think a union will magically launch everyone into nirvana. It's a long and slow drawn out process. Depending on economy there might even be concessions at some point. The good news is that it will improve and the bad news people likely won't feel good about it (not everyone ever does) until about contract #4 - do the math depending on contract length. Possibly the now f/o's will be looking at left seat before you start zeroing in on the sweet spot. There is also a very anti-union attitude with management. Funny how that happens when they are forced to play by a rule book. Instead of trying to "push a chain" it's far easier to work with the union. The pilots have the same rule book.

The key is to get involved. ALPA is a good gig but only as good as participation. The vast majority, like 99.9% of the membership would rather do what pilots do best, bitch and complain and feel sorry for themselves. Support you LEC and the MEC and things will move along.
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