Why does anyone want to work at WestJet?

[neophyte]

[quote=neophyte post_id=<a href="tel:1064405">1064405</a> time=<a href="tel:1546444842">1546444842</a> user_id=5033]
Any pilot hiring problem will manifest itself at WJE and WJ Link well before WJA.

That's already here... Guys are dropping like flies and there's hardly any one to replace them with. WJ is in the precarious position of having to hire more and more OTS, at the expense of guys at Encore by turning off the light at the end of the tunnel, causing more and more to leave. There is an experience drain going on.
[/quote]

If I haven’t said so already, pilot retention is a major concern of mine, especially at WJE. Management has made it clear how valuable Encore is to the bottom line. If they start cancelling flights due to crew issues, profitability will decrease and we will see a response. We haven’t seen it yet but I’m sure we are closer mow than ever before.

That said, the stats don’t support your comments regarding OTS pilots at the present time. In the 3 last classes the breakdown of OTS to Encore flow is as follows:

July - 9 Encore - 9 OTS
Sept - 6 Encore - 4 OTS
Oct - 7 Encore - 5 OTS

This more than satisfies the 25% flow that is guaranteed in the encore agreement.

In the end Pilots will go where they feel the best opportunity exists for them. I have seen Encore pilots go to AC, and I have seen freshly flowed encore pilots at WJA go to Air Canada. Does this bother me? Definitely not. Go where you feel you will be happiest, or have the best career (preferably BOTH).

Best of luck in this game called aviation

[neophyte]

I am not surprised to hear of WJA pilots applying elsewhere, as you said, many think the grass is greener on the other side. Some will find success, others will wish they had stayed. Eg The 4 WJ FO that is hired Jan 2019 will do well at AT, the same 4 year FO that is hire #100 at AT will wish he/she stayed put.

In the end you won’t know how it all pans out until you near the end of your career. By that time, I hope you have figured out how to enjoy and appreciate both your time at work and more importantly your time AWAY from work.

To answer your final question (which I believe was rhetorical but I’ll bite). I can guarantee you that it will take longer than 4 years to go Capt on the 787 at any operator in North America (WestJet included). +1 for AT pilots.

Please don’t forget the precarious financial situation AT was in a few years ago. If I recall correctly , WJ considered buying them (cash deal) but ended up not wanting the problems associated with the merger of two unique cultures. As you are aware, WJ has chosen to start their own WB operation. Time will tell how that works out for us both.

Bonne chance

[neophyte]

Thanks for the correction Bob. It will be difficult to maintain 50%

[Rezy]

Thanks for the correction Bob. It will be difficult to maintain 50%

The 50% is over the course of the entire contract (3 years). So they could flow 0% for the next year and still meet their contractual obligations. However, management has committed to 50% each class as long as they can.

[Lt. Daniel Kaffee]

In 2018 approximately 60-70 Westjet and Westjet Encore pilots left to join Air Canada.

Wow.

Add pilots that left for other carriers and I'd say Westjet has a significant issue.

[pacman007]

right now Westjet doesn't have problem with recruiting pilots. With the new contract they can reduce mainline pilots by 10%. SO 140 ish people can leave WJ mainline and they will be fine. if you ask me I think Westjet wants to lose 140 pilots, this is good for anyone at mainline because this helps the with the probability of layoffs.

[skybaron]

right now Westjet doesn't have problem with recruiting pilots. With the new contract they can reduce mainline pilots by 10%. SO 140 ish people can leave WJ mainline and they will be fine. if you ask me I think Westjet wants to lose 140 pilots, this is good for anyone at mainline because this helps the with the probability of layoffs.

Yeah. Perhaps your statement would be accurate if it were the year 2001. WJ Holdings or whatever name they want to identify themselves as is hemorrhaging pilots these days.

I was told they’ve been cancelling flights due to lack of crew, especially Encore. Hardly sounds like they can afford or want to lose pilots.

[complexintentions]

right now Westjet doesn't have problem with recruiting pilots. With the new contract they can reduce mainline pilots by 10%. SO 140 ish people can leave WJ mainline and they will be fine. if you ask me I think Westjet wants to lose 140 pilots, this is good for anyone at mainline because this helps the with the probability of layoffs.

It isn't just about numbers, it's about WHY so many people want to leave.

Only a manager or accountant would have such narrow thinking to actually believe that people wanting to leave a company is a good thing.

Not a good sign at all.

[FOD_Vacuum]

What is the current 2019 1st 2nd and 3rd year FO pay scale at WJ vs Swoop and how much does the typical swoop FO and WJ FO take home every two weeks? And talking specifically about their last job ad regarding Westjet/swoop, what is the likelihood that in the interview they will tell you it’s actually for Swoop and not mainline WJ? I had a buddy who took the captain upgrade at westjet and was surprised he did so quickly, but turns out it was for Swoop...

[valleyboy]

When I see threads like this all I can think is "welcome to the real world" Why is it that most pilots and likely age reflected as well think a union will magically launch everyone into nirvana. It's a long and slow drawn out process. Depending on economy there might even be concessions at some point. The good news is that it will improve and the bad news people likely won't feel good about it (not everyone ever does) until about contract #4 - do the math depending on contract length. Possibly the now f/o's will be looking at left seat before you start zeroing in on the sweet spot. There is also a very anti-union attitude with management. Funny how that happens when they are forced to play by a rule book. Instead of trying to "push a chain" it's far easier to work with the union. The pilots have the same rule book.

The key is to get involved. ALPA is a good gig but only as good as participation. The vast majority, like 99.9% of the membership would rather do what pilots do best, bitch and complain and feel sorry for themselves. Support you LEC and the MEC and things will move along.

[The Tenth Man]

When I see threads like this all I can think is "welcome to the real world" Why is it that most pilots and likely age reflected as well think a union will magically launch everyone into nirvana. It's a long and slow drawn out process. Depending on economy there might even be concessions at some point. The good news is that it will improve and the bad news people likely won't feel good about it (not everyone ever does) until about contract #4 - do the math depending on contract length. Possibly the now f/o's will be looking at left seat before you start zeroing in on the sweet spot. There is also a very anti-union attitude with management. Funny how that happens when they are forced to play by a rule book. Instead of trying to "push a chain" it's far easier to work with the union. The pilots have the same rule book.

The key is to get involved. ALPA is a good gig but only as good as participation. The vast majority, like 99.9% of the membership would rather do what pilots do best, bitch and complain and feel sorry for themselves. Support you LEC and the MEC and things will move along.

valleyboy, any angst you’re seeing from WJ pilots is not due to an unfamiliarity with the “real world”. Rather, the reactions are entirely the result of an arrogant team of inexperienced reps who believed their own BS and built up expectations way past where they should have been. The WJ pilot group has to own up and accept the mistakes they made in electing their LEC reps (<25% voter turn out) who then elected an inneffectual MEC team. Prior to certification, it wasn’t common knowledge that the 6 (9?) members of the LEC’s would be the ones who voted on who the Chairman would be.

The group will get over this. Whether or not ALPA will be their bargaining representative for the 4th contract is a good question.

Harry Markopolos

[cloak]

I agree that the legitimate aspirations of WestJet pilots were not properly represented which may not matter so much if the process and the vehicle of choice by which WestJet pilot group wish to engage management in negotiations were to fundamentally change. If ALPA is to remain however, the representatives need to be those that represent all equally and can build and nurture a relationship with management and the entire pilot group, and the process of elections updated to truly involve the vast majority of pilots directly. Is this possible under ALPA and its dues? Perhaps not!

[Eric Janson]

Pardon my airline flying ignorance but wasn’t CRM training the intent to alleviate the “ avoid flying with... “ scenario because of past cockpit conflicts. I thought that kind of stuff was past history, how can well trained professionals not get along to the point “ I don’t want to work with him/her”.

Still a thing unfortunately - not as bad as it used to be. Some combinations of personalities just don't work.

In the past I've seen Captains who I'm sure had a personality disorder - in one case it was really extreme. I've refused a fleet transfer in the past because I didn't want to fly with these people. These Captains were a great example to me of how not to do things when I became Captain. Thanks guys!

I do a lot of flights where all 3 of us are Captains. Took some getting used to but now I prefer this way of operating.

I've had a situation where the 2 other Captains had had a disagreement during the layover and were not talking to each other. Communication ran through me sitting on the jumpseat. It was a very uncomfortable flight but as long as safety wasn't being compromised I figured it was better not to intervene. I did talk to both colleagues individually about how uncomfortable the whole situation was.

I'm sure you'll find some friction on WestJet flightdecks after last years' events.

[pianokeys]

I've had a situation where the 2 other Captains had had a disagreement during the layover and were not talking to each other. Communication ran through me sitting on the jumpseat. It was a very uncomfortable flight but as long as safety wasn't being compromised I figured it was better not to intervene. I did talk to both colleagues individually about how uncomfortable the whole situation was.

Jesus haha you shoulda yelled out "We're adults, just so youre both aware." during the climb.

[180]

Commutability & socialized bidding.

Living where you want to live and consistently getting a schedule that fits your family’s lifestyle are the two main reasons many choose teal over red.

[Lightchop]

Commutability & socialized bidding.

Living where you want to live and consistently getting a schedule that fits your family’s lifestyle are the two main reasons many choose teal over red.

Funny, even as a junior pilot at my company who doesn't get what I want nearly every I am still in favor of seniority bidding. But I guess that's a personal preference.

And it's pretty easy to live anywhere you want at AC. Lots of people do it.

[180]

AC doesn’t have a commuter policy and AC doesn’t have socialized bidding. The OP asked a question and I gave a factual answer why some pilots would choose to work at a WestJet. Just dealing with the facts.

[jpilot77]

You can still commute without a commuting policy, Rouge has socialized bidding.

[180]

Not for free. And not without repercussions if your intended flight goes mechanical and your back-up flight subsequently fills up and leaves you as a last minute no-show.

At Westjet, no problem, you are pay protected and they will confirm you on the next available flight to catch you up to your pairing or find something else for you. No stress, and no colourful excuses needed.

[cjet]

Not for free. And not without repercussions if your intended flight goes mechanical and your back-up flight subsequently fills up and leaves you as a last minute no-show.

At Westjet, no problem, you are pay protected and they will confirm you on the next available flight to catch you up to your pairing or find something else for you. No stress, and no colourful excuses needed.

I believe that policy is changing with the new contract.

Cjet