Cancelled flights.

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wjawannabe
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Cancelled flights.

Post by wjawannabe » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:58 pm

This:

Toronto to Vancouver
Cancelled Flight Friday, Jan 25, 2019 at 4:00 PM Cancelled Flight
WestJet Flight Number: WS717
From: Toronto, ON (YYZ-Pearson Intl.) Depart: 4:00 PM
To: Vancouver, BC (YVR-Vancouver Intl.) Arrive: 6:20 PM
Status: CANCELLED
Equipment: Boeing 737-700
Vancouver to Victoria

Cancelled Flight Friday, Jan 25, 2019 at 8:15 PM Cancelled Flight
WestJet Flight Number: WS3189
From: Vancouver, BC (YVR-Vancouver Intl.) Depart: 8:15 PM
To: Victoria, BC (YYJ-Victoria Intl.) Arrive: 8:52 PM
Status: CANCELLED
Equipment: DeHavilland Dash 8-400 Turboprop
Operated By: OPERATED BY SUBSIDIARY/FRANCHISE(WS)

Became this:

Toronto to Calgary
Flight Details Friday, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:15 PM
WestJet Flight Number: WS675
From: Toronto, ON (YYZ-Pearson Intl.) Depart: 10:15 PM
To: Calgary, AB (YYC-Calgary Intl.) Arrive: 12:41 AM +1 day
Status: CONFIRMED
Equipment: Boeing 737-600 Jet

Calgary to Victoria
Flight Details Saturday, Jan 26, 2019 at 7:00 AM
WestJet Flight Number: WS209
From: Calgary, AB (YYC-Calgary Intl.) Depart: 7:00 AM
To: Victoria, BC (YYJ-Victoria Intl.) Arrive: 7:40 AM
Status: CONFIRMED
Equipment: Boeing 737-700

Anyone know why?

Turned an already painful 17hr trip into a 28hr trip. Just to get from London to the west coast. Camped out in YYC overnight.

(Apparently they haven’t cancelled the LGW-YYZ flight. Yet.)
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by complexintentions » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:57 pm

Yeah I flew with them once on a similar endurance test from LGW out to BC and back. It was cheap.

Never again. You really really really get what you pay for.

Maybe once they get their 787's they'll actually be able to sell tickets with a straight face but it'll still be the same excruciating attempts at humour no doubt.

Good luck.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by SwoopStar » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:28 pm

Sounds like trouble with the Encore flight?
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by lostaviator » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:54 pm

None of those flights are actually showing as "cancelled".

Maybe worth a call to see what's up.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by wjawannabe » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:24 am

Yes I called. They swapped a B737 for the B767 on the LGW-YYZ flight. So they have to stop in Halifax for fuel. This makes the connection in Toronto close so instead of a 4pm flight to Vancouver it’s now a 10:15pm flight to Calgary. THAT arrives at 1am, and doesn’t leave for VIctoria until 7 am.

Thus adding 11 hours to the itinerary. Which already sucked, but I accepted that for the cost. But this is just stupid.

Of course, they’re still showing the original itinerary for sale on their site.

A short-haul airline pretending to be a long-haul airline. No explanation for the aircraft swap, I assume it went tech. Total communication fail, referring to the flights as “cancelled”. No explanation, the lady on the phone had to dig for information for nearly 25 min herself.

Note to WestJet: stapling a bunch of flights together does not make you an international airline. The B787 won’t make an ounce of difference (other than the massive capital costs) if you keep the amateur mentality. If you don’t have the fleet capacity wetlease a proper machine like everyone else for god’s sake.

On the plane now. Most of the pax don’t even know we’re stopping in Halifax. The people who figured it out are pissed and worried for connections. Way to be transparent, WestJet!

I’m with complex - this is my 1st and last adventure with this clown show.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by skybaron » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:26 am

wjawannabe wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:24 am

Note to WestJet: stapling a bunch of flights together does not make you an international airline. The B787 won’t make an ounce of difference (other than the massive capital costs) if you keep the amateur mentality. If you don’t have the fleet capacity wetlease a proper machine like everyone else for god’s sake.

- this is my 1st and last adventure with this clown show.

Solely, the painted badge of “Clive Beddoe” on the 787 will save the day, and you will soon forget your negative experience.

After all, look how well he respects his employee group. :lol:

Chime in the lowest paid 737 operators in the world flashing pink. .

“Love where you’re going” - WJ
(Even if that means somewhere you didn’t desire to be)
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by altiplano » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:11 am

Don't they have LGW direct YVR or YYC flights? Can't they put you on one of those instead?
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by wjawannabe » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:29 pm

altiplano wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:11 am
Don't they have LGW direct YVR or YYC flights?
Unfortunately no. I know they HAVE had them - maybe they’re seasonal? I would have booked it that way from the beginning if I could have.

Just languishing in Toronto waiting for the 10:15pm Calgary flight. 11 hours to get from London UK to Toronto, only another 18 to get to VIctoria! :lol:
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by Old fella » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:51 pm

wjawannabe wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:29 pm
altiplano wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:11 am
Don't they have LGW direct YVR or YYC flights?
Unfortunately no. I know they HAVE had them - maybe they’re seasonal? I would have booked it that way from the beginning if I could have.

Just languishing in Toronto waiting for the 10:15pm Calgary flight. 11 hours to get from London UK to Toronto, only another 18 to get to VIctoria! :lol:
On yer 11 hr caper from London to Toronto did WJ toss in the FA third rate inflight comedy routine, on boarding they ask you to wave at the FA holding the aft position , did he/she wave back. 🤠🤠🤠
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by altiplano » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:18 pm

wjawannabe wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:29 pm
altiplano wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:11 am
Don't they have LGW direct YVR or YYC flights?
Unfortunately no. I know they HAVE had them - maybe they’re seasonal? I would have booked it that way from the beginning if I could have.

Just languishing in Toronto waiting for the 10:15pm Calgary flight. 11 hours to get from London UK to Toronto, only another 18 to get to VIctoria! :lol:
Didn't realize that was only seasonal. Good thing you haven't lost your sense of humour yet... That's a brutal itinerary. I hope they have a room for your sit in YYC tonight.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by Blue42 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:24 pm

wjawannabe wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:24 am
Yes I called. They swapped a B737 for the B767 on the LGW-YYZ flight. So they have to stop in Halifax for fuel. This makes the connection in Toronto close so instead of a 4pm flight to Vancouver it’s now a 10:15pm flight to Calgary. THAT arrives at 1am, and doesn’t leave for VIctoria until 7 am.

Thus adding 11 hours to the itinerary. Which already sucked, but I accepted that for the cost. But this is just stupid.

Of course, they’re still showing the original itinerary for sale on their site.

A short-haul airline pretending to be a long-haul airline. No explanation for the aircraft swap, I assume it went tech. Total communication fail, referring to the flights as “cancelled”. No explanation, the lady on the phone had to dig for information for nearly 25 min herself.

Note to WestJet: stapling a bunch of flights together does not make you an international airline. The B787 won’t make an ounce of difference (other than the massive capital costs) if you keep the amateur mentality. If you don’t have the fleet capacity wetlease a proper machine like everyone else for god’s sake.

On the plane now. Most of the pax don’t even know we’re stopping in Halifax. The people who figured it out are pissed and worried for connections. Way to be transparent, WestJet!

I’m with complex - this is my 1st and last adventure with this clown show.
Oh boo friggin hoo!!! :smt022 :smt022 :smt022 you already said yourself “I accepted it for the cost”. Why didn’t you spend a few more $ and fly direct to LHR with AC or BA? Oh wait, you’d still be pissing and moaning if they had a delay or cancellation too. IROPs happen, get over it and be happy they got you on flights home. Look around there’s probably still Primera passengers there too.

Oh and when you start your whining post, how about putting all the information out there!! Include the fact you were connecting in from LGW....

Wjawannabe, yeah right....
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by wjawannabe » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:09 pm

Hahah Hilarious, sounds like you know a thing or two about “pissing and moaning yourself”! No need to get defensive just because you’re late to the game finally acquiring new longhaul aircraft. I accepted a 17: 42 hour itinerary, not a 29 hour one arriving the next day. Don’t blame me that you can’t spot the difference! :D

Fortunately WS agreed and spotted me a hotel room to grab 2 hours sleep before having to be back for the last flight. Credit where it’s due.
Blue42 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:24 pm
Oh boo friggin hoo!!! :smt022 :smt022 :smt022 you already said yourself “I accepted it for the cost”. Why didn’t you spend a few more $ and fly direct to LHR with AC or BA? Oh wait, you’d still be pissing and moaning if they had a delay or cancellation too. IROPs happen, get over it and be happy they got you on flights home. Look around there’s probably still Primera passengers there too.

Oh and when you start your whining post, how about putting all the information out there!! Include the fact you were connecting in from LGW....

Wjawannabe, yeah right....
I guess you meant “direct FROM LHR”? Don’t worry, I fully plan to take your advice. IROPS do happen to everyone, my mistake was thinking WestJet can compete with carriers like AC or BA internationally when it comes to recovering from them. Nice of you to admit the cheap fares exist for a reason.

FWIW, you might find that paying for new aircraft with discount fares isn’t the strongest strategy, nor is berating those who pay those fares lol. WestJet’s longhaul ops have definitely established themselves just as capable as the Primera‘s of the industry in delaying, inconveniencing, and generally pissing off pax - better hope you don’t end up the same way! :mrgreen:
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by aerobod » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:18 pm

wjawannabe wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:09 pm
Hahah Hilarious, sounds like you know a thing or two about “pissing and moaning yourself”! No need to get defensive just because you’re late to the game finally acquiring new longhaul aircraft. I accepted a 17: 42 hour itinerary, not a 29 hour one arriving the next day. Don’t blame me that you can’t spot the difference! :D

Fortunately WS agreed and spotted me a hotel room to grab 2 hours sleep before having to be back for the last flight. Credit where it’s due.
Blue42 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:24 pm
Oh boo friggin hoo!!! :smt022 :smt022 :smt022 you already said yourself “I accepted it for the cost”. Why didn’t you spend a few more $ and fly direct to LHR with AC or BA? Oh wait, you’d still be pissing and moaning if they had a delay or cancellation too. IROPs happen, get over it and be happy they got you on flights home. Look around there’s probably still Primera passengers there too.

Oh and when you start your whining post, how about putting all the information out there!! Include the fact you were connecting in from LGW....

Wjawannabe, yeah right....
I guess you meant “direct FROM LHR”? Don’t worry, I fully plan to take your advice. IROPS do happen to everyone, my mistake was thinking WestJet can compete with carriers like AC or BA internationally when it comes to recovering from them. Nice of you to admit the cheap fares exist for a reason.

FWIW, you might find that paying for new aircraft with discount fares isn’t the strongest strategy, nor is berating those who pay those fares lol. WestJet’s longhaul ops have definitely established themselves just as capable as the Primera‘s of the industry in delaying, inconveniencing, and generally pissing off pax - better hope you don’t end up the same way! :mrgreen:
Of course, when you take all the emotion out of a single incident that has unfortunately affected you, the stats say that over the past two months, WS4 from LGW to YYZ has better performance on average (when measuring delay and OTP) than either BA93 from LHR to YYZ or AC857 from LHR to YYZ, even though they have had to re-accommodate people on 3 flights over that period due to the Gatwick drone incident, from flightstats.com:
ws4.png
ws4.png (154.76 KiB) Viewed 3433 times
ba93.png
ba93.png (190.8 KiB) Viewed 3433 times
ac857.png
ac857.png (179.53 KiB) Viewed 3433 times
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by flashheart » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:51 pm

0 cancellations by AC & BA

3 (5%) cancellations by WJ

So 5% chance you ain’t going anywhere.

I’ll take the other options. Thanks for the stats!
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by aerobod » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:02 pm

flashheart wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:51 pm
0 cancellations by AC & BA

3 (5%) cancellations by WJ

So 5% chance you ain’t going anywhere.

I’ll take the other options. Thanks for the stats!
It sounds as though you haven’t watched the news over the past couple of months, those cancellations were due to the weekend of disruptions due to the drone issue at LGW, not aircraft operational issues, re-accommodation took place on recovery flights. So it is not a valid cancellation rate, knowing the facts and stats can tell you a lot.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by altiplano » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:10 pm

Stats eh?

Just looking at the past week for WS 4...

1 x into KEF
1 x into YYT
1 x into YHZ
1 x XLD

How many times were BA or AC into KEF this week?
Screenshot_2019-01-26-22-56-06.png
Screenshot_2019-01-26-22-56-06.png (469.04 KiB) Viewed 3331 times
I guess they were on-time doing it though... Do they get an extra on-time departure report for being on-time out of YHZ or YYT? How late were they for the original arrival into YYZ I wonder?
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by aerobod » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:24 pm

altiplano wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:10 pm
Stats eh?

Just looking at the past week for WS 4...

1 x into KEF
1 x into YYT
1 x into YHZ
1 x XLD

How many times were BA or AC into KEF this week?

Screenshot_2019-01-26-22-56-06.png
I guess they were on-time doing it though... Do they get an extra on-time departure report for being on-time out of YHZ or YYT? How late were they for the original arrival into YYZ I wonder?
You do realize that was due to the fuel tech stops while the 737MAX-8 is being used, as opposed to diversions?

If you look at the big picture, on a WestJet flight you are more likely to arrive and arrive on time than on an Air Canada flight. I don’t think AC has had better OTP than WestJet for quite a few years. In Dec 2018 WestJet had both better OTP and completion factor (78.46% / 98.98%) compared with AC (69.10% / 98.17%). https://www.flightstats.com/v2/monthly- ... s/airlines
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by pianokeys » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:23 am

I heard a rumor once that WS just cancels flights if they overbook. Easier than owning up to the fact that they infact, do overbook.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by altiplano » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:23 am

aerobod wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:24 pm
altiplano wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:10 pm
Stats eh?

Just looking at the past week for WS 4...

1 x into KEF
1 x into YYT
1 x into YHZ
1 x XLD

How many times were BA or AC into KEF this week?

Screenshot_2019-01-26-22-56-06.png
I guess they were on-time doing it though... Do they get an extra on-time departure report for being on-time out of YHZ or YYT? How late were they for the original arrival into YYZ I wonder?
You do realize that was due to the fuel tech stops while the 737MAX-8 is being used, as opposed to diversions?

If you look at the big picture, on a WestJet flight you are more likely to arrive and arrive on time than on an Air Canada flight. I don’t think AC has had better OTP than WestJet for quite a few years. In Dec 2018 WestJet had both better OTP and completion factor (78.46% / 98.98%) compared with AC (69.10% / 98.17%). https://www.flightstats.com/v2/monthly- ... s/airlines
Tech stop in KEF eh... ON LGW-YYZ routing?

Those are cherry picked pop the brake stats I suppose... do you have arrival stats

Flightaware starts on this flight say:
average departure delay :40-1:00
average arrival delay +1:00

Screenshot_2019-01-27-06-16-41.png
Screenshot_2019-01-27-06-16-41.png (324.03 KiB) Viewed 3218 times
Today's flight shows departure on time and 1:09 LATE on arrival. How does that fit with your stats?
Screenshot_2019-01-27-06-24-47.png
Screenshot_2019-01-27-06-24-47.png (575.32 KiB) Viewed 3217 times
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by altiplano » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:38 am

Here's the AC857 stat from flight aware...

average departure delay <:10
average arrival delay :10-:20

seems divergent from what you have...
Screenshot_2019-01-27-06-29-38.png
Screenshot_2019-01-27-06-29-38.png (299.83 KiB) Viewed 3212 times
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by lownslow » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:34 am

So is nobody going to ask the really important question here?

Wjawannabe joined this forum 8.5 years ago. Still wanna be one of those WJA folks?
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by aeroncasuperchief » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:44 am

a hotel room to grab 2 hours sleep
You went with WestJet to save $$$ Why didn't you say to WestJet " Thanks for the room offer, but I will only be able to get 2 hrs sleep and therefore be spending too much of Westjets money for too little gain " Wannabes only think for themselves! ( Unless you are a woman and really need to do your hair ! lol )
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by aerobod » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:37 am

altiplano wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:38 am
Here's the AC857 stat from flight aware...

average departure delay <:10
average arrival delay :10-:20

seems divergent from what you have...
Each of the 3 major flight tracking sites have their strengths and weaknesses, all have data accuracy in the range of 98% due to missed or corrupt data points Flightstats (which is part of Flight Global) has the best analytics offering, Flightaware the best JSON based realtime connectivity for realtime flight reporting. My Data team met with Flightaware and Flightstats commercial teams a number of times to look at their commercial offerings and how they collect data.

Flightradar24 - almost exclusively uses ADS-B data from enthusiasts with receivers in their homes, fed via the Internet to their servers. great for airport approaches with very accurate view of the flight take off and landing, but weak for runway to terminal times and limited data scrubbing (see the WS2154 squawk 7500 incident caused by flightradar24).

Flightaware - ADS-B plus other publicly available sources such as FAA, ATC. Most accurate for enroute data with some scrubbing capability and predictive paths over oceans where ADS-B is not received via satellite.

Flightstats - Concentrates mainly on airport, airline (GDS) and ATC related information and less on just ADS-B, with the strongest commercial data offering, concentrates mainly on OTP measurement and has good data scrubbing capabilitities. Best for understanding gate-to-gate times

You can go back over the past year in the basic consumer access to the data and do your own analysis. 5 years ago WS was the worst airline for OTP, consistently at the bottom, but had a major internal program to improve. For the the whole of 2018 across all flights captured (about 250,000 WS flights and 600,000 AC flights) the results were:

AC OTP(A14) 68.8% - 31.2% late
AC completion 97.0% - 3.0% cancelled
WS OTP(A14) 77.8% - 22.2% late
WS completion 98.2% - 1.8% cancelled

The basic trends are that AC is at or near the bottom of North American airlines for OTP in most months. WS is below average for winter months and above average in summer months, being number 1 in May 2018. Both have more winter challenges that are responsible for poor OTP than other airlines have to contend with (Hawaiian has the least trouble here and always manages a decent position).

I should also say that I'm hoping to help Air Canada get better even if it is only a small contribution to their performance, I'm currently on an IT Consulting contract there providing assistance in systems architecture. The more accurate data in the hands of the right people at the right time will help operational efficiency, OTP and completion rates.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by altiplano » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:47 am

You should tell them to let crews release the park brake on time... that would give them at least a few point bump.
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Re: Cancelled flights.

Post by cloak » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:34 pm

altiplano wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:47 am
You should tell them to let crews release the park brake on time... that would give them at least a few point bump.
What is parking brake release policy as stipulated in the contract at Air Canada?
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