SWOOP - A New Hires Future

[CaptainHaddock]

Swoop is a shit show to be sure. If they do tell you before hand which company you are being hired for and you hear Swoop-run. Honestly even for WJ mainline I’m not sure what the plan is these days, if they grow Swoop mainline will stagnate (90% is the guarantee). Lots are leaving for AC currently so that’s the main driver of hiring. The first 787 has shown up, but they are coming pretty slowly. There are another 30 or so Max’s coming over the next few years, but Swoop is taking 4 more current 800NG’s plus a possible 20 more. So.... It should be a pretty exciting time at Westjet with the new routes and aircraft, but they’re just so cheap and petty. I think the plan is to embrace tier 2 working conditions and just have a huge turnover with lots of training.

[Bacunayagua]

Any updates on the status of the "one list", between WJ and Encore?

[sstaurus]

Nope. Next meeting is in the coming week. Management just keeps saying 'it's complicated'... all while they refuse to negotiate on any other meaningful terms with Encore. Feels like we've been down this path before recently...

[Bacunayagua]

Interesting, I would have thought this issue would have been ironed out already since I keep on hearing "everyone has agreed to it".

Thanks.

[Yieldermatik]

Just to get up to speed, can someone tell me in so many words what "the one list" is? Thanks...

[DropTanks]

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[WarmSandDreams]

Ok so here's a question. Bill C-86's equal pay for equal work clause was brought up in a thread about jazz and ggn. Would swoop employees be able to use that to force mainline rates on swoop aircraft given that it's the exact same job through the same employer? This seems to be the exact thing that bill was fighting.

[tps8903]

Ok so here's a question. Bill C-86's equal pay for equal work clause was brought up in a thread about jazz and ggn. Would swoop employees be able to use that to force mainline rates on swoop aircraft given that it's the exact same job through the same employer? This seems to be the exact thing that bill was fighting.

Looks more like a gender equality bill for pay. That being said, if Swoop was to have more female pilots per capita than Mainline, then there is an argument that it could be successfully applied.

[V1Vr]

Ok so here's a question. Bill C-86's equal pay for equal work clause was brought up in a thread about jazz and ggn. Would swoop employees be able to use that to force mainline rates on swoop aircraft given that it's the exact same job through the same employer? This seems to be the exact thing that bill was fighting.

Lol no.

[FurHat]

 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 182:
Prohibition — rate of wages
182.‍1 (1) An employer is prohibited from paying one employee a rate of wages that is less than the rate paid to another of that employer’s employees due to a difference in their employment status, if
(a) they work in the same industrial establishment;
(b) they perform substantially the same kind of work;
(c) the performance of that work requires substantially the same skill, effort and responsibility;
(d) their work is performed under similar working conditions; and
(e) any other factor that may be prescribed by regulation is present.
Exception
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the difference in employees’ rates of wages is due to a system based on
(a) seniority;
(b) merit;
(c) the quantity or quality of each employee’s production; or
(d) any other criterion that may be prescribed by regulation.

[Rowdy]

So thats why they 'blended' our scale so quickly. Instead of being forced to revert to the A scale.

[goingnowherefast]

Swoop and mainline WJ are not similar working conditions. WJ has better pay AND working conditions.

[mbav8r]

(c) the quantity or quality of each employee’s production; or

I’m not a lawyer but I saw one on TV once, pretty sure they could argue the employees production and quality is reduced at Swoop.

[co-joe]

Not trying to start anything, but today someone told me that there's only currently a 10% flow from Encore to WS. Is that real? 90% OTS hiring?

[JBI]

Not trying to start anything, but today someone told me that there's only currently a 10% flow from Encore to WS. Is that real? 90% OTS hiring?

Not correct. Currently flow is minimum 50% for the duration of the contract (not specific GS classes). I don't know the specifics of where things stand, but the company has been quite good at having 50% or more of new WS ground schools filled with Encore pilots including a few recent classes that were 100% Encore pilots.

Lots of unknowns in the future and lots of room for improvement, but that statement isn't correct.

[tkdowell]

Not trying to start anything, but today someone told me that there's only currently a 10% flow from Encore to WS. Is that real? 90% OTS hiring?

Not correct. Currently flow is minimum 50% for the duration of the contract (not specific GS classes). I don't know the specifics of where things stand, but the company has been quite good at having 50% or more of new WS ground schools filled with Encore pilots including a few recent classes that were 100% Encore pilots.

Lots of unknowns in the future and lots of room for improvement, but that statement isn't correct.

The last class had 70% from Encore

[tps8903]

Not trying to start anything, but today someone told me that there's only currently a 10% flow from Encore to WS. Is that real? 90% OTS hiring?

Not correct. Currently flow is minimum 50% for the duration of the contract (not specific GS classes). I don't know the specifics of where things stand, but the company has been quite good at having 50% or more of new WS ground schools filled with Encore pilots including a few recent classes that were 100% Encore pilots.

Lots of unknowns in the future and lots of room for improvement, but that statement isn't correct.

The last class had 70% from Encore

Now there is also “back-flow” from Swoop. All the pilots that bid out are transitioning back to WJ. As mentioned Encore is given 50% or more spots on an contractual basis. So with the Encore and Swoop flow on the go I’d say there will be very little OTS for mainline. I would say most OTS will be for Swoop for the next year and a bit.

[goingnowherefast]

Good luck. I hope to see many swoop planes holding down the pavement due to lack of pilots while WJ aircraft and crews operate the flights.

[ant_321]

A couple nights ago I heard a pilot correct himself after saying empress instead of swoop a couple times and then after landing I saw a Canadian North airplane at a gate. Is Canadian north doing uplift for swoop?

[Dizzy D]

A couple nights ago I heard a pilot correct himself after saying empress instead of swoop a couple times and then after landing I saw a Canadian North airplane at a gate. Is Canadian north doing uplift for swoop?

Swoop had to charter Canadian North because nobody would pick up OT in irrops. Can’t say I blame swoop pilots for not picking up, it hardly seems worth it. Maybe swoop management should get more money for those pilots.

On a side note, Encore had to break their own requirements to flow pilots to swoop. Current requirements are 1 year from initial line indoc at Encore. Nobody wants to go there, so the company is desperate.

[AtlanticTour]

For informational purposes, on the last WestJet system-wide bid, which Swoop pilots were eligible to bid on, 50- of the 58 current Swoop pilots bid to go back to WestJet. And the company only awarded 3 WestJet openings to Swoop pilots, all of whom were very senior pilots within the combined WJ / Swoop list.

Those statistics should tell you everything you need to know about Swoop. Would the last person off a pink airplane please turn out the light!

Atlantic Tour

PS: The following Canadian B737 / Airbus 320 / B757-767 operators pay more than Swoop, have better work rules, better retirement, and are actively hiring:

Air Canada
Air Transat
Canadian North
First Air
Flair Air
Sunwing
CargoJet

[goingnowherefast]

Assuming seniority allows, can management deny the bids for operational reasons?

[Hangry]

I think it's pretty clear that WJ management does whatever they want.

[DropTanks]

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[Blue42]

The Swoop bid closed on the 14th!