Cathay Looking For Canadians

[Diadem]

...on step 1 SO pay, you'll be paid a minimum of $45,383.33HKD/month ($92,957.77CAD/year) (Working just the minimum monthly block hours + Pilot allowance) so it's not so bad. If you were to work 80 hours per month on the Airbus, you'd be looking at $68440.61HKD/month or $140185.53CAD/year.

I think you mean step one FO pay, because the SO pay starts at 31383, or $64359 CAD annually; if you're paying $20000/month for rent, that doesn't leave much else. The new FO rate is actually a little higher at $48125, which works out to a good salary, but again almost half of that will go to rent. The cost of living in general is higher too: food tends to be a little more expensive than in Canada, and alcohol is much more.

[Speedalive]

I think you mean step one FO pay, because the SO pay starts at 31383, or $64359 CAD annually; if you're paying $20000/month for rent, that doesn't leave much else. The new FO rate is actually a little higher at $48125, which works out to a good salary, but again almost half of that will go to rent. The cost of living in general is higher too: food tends to be a little more expensive than in Canada, and alcohol is much more.

Nope.
In the "Conditions of Service Document it says:

"An Officer shall be entitled to the following remuneration:
 basic monthly salary,
 monthly productivity pay, ([Actual Block Hours less Minimum Monthly Block Hours] x Block Hour Rate), and
 annual productivity bonus ([Aggregate Annual Block Hours less Target Annual Block Hours] x [0.5 x Block Hour Rate])."

So using Step 1 SO rates and the airbus as an example, if you just worked the bare minimum 49 block hours per month, you get paid 31,383.33HKD per month plus the 14k pilot allowance which is $45,383.33HKD/month. If you work more than 49 hours over the course of the month, you get paid an additional monthly productivity pay. If you work more than 840 hours over the course of the year, you also get the annual productivity bonus.

So if you used my 80 hours example, you get the basic 45,383.33HKD/month as well as the monthly productivity pay of 19,854.88HKD (31 hours in excess of 49 hours x 640.48HKD) which gives you 65238.21HKD/month. If you did 80 hours per month for the whole year, that would give you 960 hours. That's 120 hours more than the annual target of 840 which results in an annual bonus of 38428.80/year (120 hours x half the block hour rate of 640.48). So that would give you 821287.32HKD/year (140,185.53 CAD). 5-10% gets taken off for the provident fund and tax of course..

I could be wrong with my math. Happy to be corrected cause I'm hoping to go here someday. Looking for realistic expectations!

[munzil]

Why , as a pilot, would you live in HK central?

Discovery Bay is alot closer by bus or car from the airport. Amazing place to live. And cheaper.
Lots and lots of pilots living there.

You answered your own question...

Not everyone wants to live with a bunch of pilots in the suburbs... I see the attraction of some things in DB, esp. with a family, but if I was young in HKG I'd want to live where it's at... and that's on the Island... even now, I'm getting old and I'd prefer being in it...

Couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't stand DB, it was just like the suburbs in the west. Lamma Island, Shek o, Sai Kung etc were the places to be for those who actually enjoyed hk

[Dingbatt]

Any record of Cathay hiring canadians with 750 hours and ATPL written??

I might be interested

I was hired with 700hrs and no ATPLs written. Man they'll take anyone with a pulse at this point. Company are desperately short. Still not worth it.

If the choice is between Jazz and Cathay, as it stands right now and assuming your relatively young and single, Cathay wins hands down.

That being said, the geopolitical situation in Asia doesn't have the best outlook. One can easily end up having to "retreat" to Canada after 5 years as an SO at Cathay... without any additional flight experience to show for it...

I completely disagree. 4 years have gone by for me at Cathay and not going to Jazz was a disastrous mistake. When I was hired, Jazz wouldn't look at me, but now it seems Jazz are recruiting much more. Its far more money at Cathay; but it doesn't go very far in HK. I'm desperately trying to get back to Canada, after a logbook filled with 4 years of SO P2X time which isn't even worth the paper its written on. Plus, if you got hired now you'd be on the new contract.

Everyone can make their own decisions, but there is plenty of info on PPrne for reasons pilots are pouring out of Cathay.

[MarkyMark90]

after a logbook filled with 4 years of SO P2X time which isn't even worth the paper its written on.

4 years and you’re still not upgradable as a FO ?

[Blueontop]

Is Cathay only hiring SO or are they also hiring FOs as well?

[C-GGGQ]

According to the site they hire F/O's as well but for either it's a 7 year bond and they deduct your pay for it.

[altiplano]

According to the site they hire F/O's as well but for either it's a 7 year bond and they deduct your pay for it.

I think it's a 7 year prorated payback on the big signing bonus they give you to help you get set up in HKG... If you leave in 3.5 years you pay half back.

What is it? $30K or $40K? Everyone I know banked the majority of it.

[C-GGGQ]

If thata the case, it's not well explained

[altiplano]

If thata the case, it's not well explained

I didn't read anything. That's just what my friends at CX told me.

[C-GGGQ]

Fair enough. Still amounts to the same thing right? It's a 7 year agreement, and they deduct it off your pay. Even if it's paying back a bonus.

[andy.air]

after a logbook filled with 4 years of SO P2X time which isn't even worth the paper its written on.

4 years and you’re still not upgradable as a FO ?

4 years is pretty common to be an SO in the past (from chats with some of the FOs there), and I don't believe there is a single SO who has gone past 5 years yet (granted, some have upgraded with way less). The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years per Hong Kong's authority, and I think the only way to get around this is if the airline makes you redo the training (which is probably more expensive than just upgrading you), or just finds some way to circumvent this limitation.

This all said, the current climate at CX can be described as quite murky with an uncertain future. The airline underwent some rather illogical cost-cutting measures. They are crewing 2 SOs for some of their long haul flights now, which means delayed upgrades in upwards towards the 5 year mark for the prospective SO (lower demand for FOs, and higher demand for SOs). There has not been a collective/tentative agreement between the union and the company for about half a decade now, with a recent agreement falling through. New joiners post December 2018 are also on a new contract that is degraded (D-Scale), and no one on the A through C scale are too happy about it. Cadets have to pay half their training now (through salary dedications), although you might get a pass if you join as a direct-entry SO. Unless some of these policies are reversed, it may be turbulent times ahead.

Fair enough. Still amounts to the same thing right? It's a 7 year agreement, and they deduct it off your pay. Even if it's paying back a bonus.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a such a long bond anymore unless you do a full cadetship, which you probably won't be doing without a Hong Kong permanent residence anyways. To my knowledge, they offer some smaller loans now which you can take or leave to get you set up in Hong Kong. If you don't take it, your bond is only as long as the cost to get you converted.

[C-GGGQ]

I figured it was only for the cadets but unfortunately straight from their website it's for cadets, direct entry so, and for.

[C-GGGQ]

My mistake. It wasn't Cathay it was Singapore.

Bond
Successful candidates will be required to serve the employer company for the duration of the training and for a period of seven years from the date of appointment as First Officer.

For ab initio, direct so or fo. 7 years doesn't even kick in till FO upgrade though.

[Dingbatt]

. . . The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years per Hong Kong's authority. . . or just finds some way to circumvent this limitation. . . .The airline underwent some rather illogical cost-cutting measures. They are crewing 2 SOs for some of their long haul flights now

And thats just the thing, they have found a way. 5 years is an arbitrary limit anyways, but now new SOs get a P1X (still not P1) rating. Its all part of a plan to restructure the airline from 1CN 2FO 1SO Long haul to 1CN 1FO 2SO Long haul. Therefore, they need fewer FOs and more SOs. So upgrade times are at the 5 year mark right now, but if anything it will increase or best case it remains the same. There are plenty of cadets joining with 0 hours, so they'll have more than enough recruits. It just saves cathay a bit of cash if you join with a CPL that YOU paid for, rather than a cadet who haid his/hers paid for by Cathay

[altiplano]

My mistake. It wasn't Cathay it was Singapore.

Bond
Successful candidates will be required to serve the employer company for the duration of the training and for a period of seven years from the date of appointment as First Officer.

For ab initio, direct so or fo. 7 years doesn't even kick in till FO upgrade though.

Does Singapore even hire expats anymore? I thought they kicked them all out at one point.

[C-GGGQ]

Maybe not in actuality, but on paper yes. Only one that openly says for Singapore residents is cadet.

[MarkyMark90]

How is it to be a SO/RP... I mean, the joy of flying is to perform takeoff and landing for most of us. Doesn’t it get boring after a while of just “monitoring” the AP, even on a 777 ?

[andy.air]

. . . The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years per Hong Kong's authority. . . or just finds some way to circumvent this limitation. . . .The airline underwent some rather illogical cost-cutting measures. They are crewing 2 SOs for some of their long haul flights now

And thats just the thing, they have found a way. 5 years is an arbitrary limit anyways, but now new SOs get a P1X (still not P1) rating. Its all part of a plan to restructure the airline from 1CN 2FO 1SO Long haul to 1CN 1FO 2SO Long haul. Therefore, they need fewer FOs and more SOs. So upgrade times are at the 5 year mark right now, but if anything it will increase or best case it remains the same. There are plenty of cadets joining with 0 hours, so they'll have more than enough recruits. It just saves cathay a bit of cash if you join with a CPL that YOU paid for, rather than a cadet who haid his/hers paid for by Cathay

Dingbatt, do you know anyone who has physically received a P1X rating recently? I legitimately want to know, as I posed this question up the grapevine once several months back, and most of the guys thought it was more of a Cathay thing than an actual rating (since there is neither reference of a P1X at HKCAD's site, nor is there reference in ops D).

You can PM me if you prefer. Thanks.

[altiplano]

How is it to be a SO/RP... I mean, the joy of flying is to perform takeoff and landing for most of us. Doesn’t it get boring after a while of just “monitoring” the AP, even on a 777 ?

I believe when you have flown professionally long enough, the joy for many of this career is being able to spend time with family and pursue your other interests.

I dedicated a lot of years to flying before the airlines and in the airlines, countless sectors/take-offs/landings - I could care less. As much money as possible for as little time away... that's the formula for me... joy? meh...