Bid 2019
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Re: Bid 2019
So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?
Re: Bid 2019
Net increase in posted positions in YYZ is 150 including a net increase in 76 CA positions. Therefore, it is NOT a base bid.47north wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:19 pmThat is more or less correct. Read section 5-5 of the contract. Basically for each position reduced in YYZ off the Q, an equal number of open positions on the CRJ and/or Dash classic are considered base vacancies and those pilots based in YYZ will get first choice to bid on those positions before a pilot from another base. Since Georgian pilots technically don’t have a base on the Jazz roster , they have to bid a system vacancy and won’t necessarily get a YYZ RJ position.
All vacancies in YYZ will be filled in order of system seniority with the exception that no current YYZ based pilot can be forced off of the base.
GGN pilots do not have a base for the purpose of the bid.
Re: Bid 2019
Yup. But that is just an estimate with a lot of underlying assumptions that may change. There may also be another bid run later this year which will update the total number of pilots required and number of vacancies.B1900Driver wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:20 am So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?
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Re: Bid 2019
Ok, thanks for the info!! Hopefully training will pick up the pace and us in the pool get called!rudder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:56 amYup. But that is just an estimate with a lot of underlying assumptions that may change. There may also be another bid run later this year which will update the total number of pilots required and number of vacancies.B1900Driver wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:20 am So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?
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Re: Bid 2019
Likely closer to the end of summer is my guess, as the jets transition over from GGN the training department will be pretty busy commensurate with that movement, as well as upgrade training to replace those who flow to AC.B1900Driver wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:04 amOk, thanks for the info!! Hopefully training will pick up the pace and us in the pool get called!rudder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:56 amYup. But that is just an estimate with a lot of underlying assumptions that may change. There may also be another bid run later this year which will update the total number of pilots required and number of vacancies.B1900Driver wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:20 am So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?
Re: Bid 2019
Actually we are saying the same thing. Read the language:rudder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:54 amNet increase in posted positions in YYZ is 150 including a net increase in 76 CA positions. Therefore, it is NOT a base bid.47north wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:19 pmThat is more or less correct. Read section 5-5 of the contract. Basically for each position reduced in YYZ off the Q, an equal number of open positions on the CRJ and/or Dash classic are considered base vacancies and those pilots based in YYZ will get first choice to bid on those positions before a pilot from another base. Since Georgian pilots technically don’t have a base on the Jazz roster , they have to bid a system vacancy and won’t necessarily get a YYZ RJ position.
All vacancies in YYZ will be filled in order of system seniority with the exception that no current YYZ based pilot can be forced off of the base.
GGN pilots do not have a base for the purpose of the bid.
01 All Vacancies shall be defined as base or system using the following criteria:
a) Base Vacancy:
Is a Vacancy that is restricted to a Pilot on the affected Base, if the awarding of
a Vacancy at that affected Base to a Pilot from another Base would cause a
displacement off the affected Base or a Reduction in Status. However, a
Captain may be displaced in Status by a more senior First officer on the affected
Base. This Captain then has the right to displace any junior Pilot.
b) System Vacancy:
All Vacancies other than Base Vacancies.
This section of the contract is all about base stability. In practice this means that any Q400 Captain or FO who is being displaced as a result of the reductions on that fleet in YYZ has the right to one of the vacancies on the base, either RJ or Classic Dash.
Re: Bid 2019
True. But it does not give ‘first rights’ to any specific vacancy on the base. All vacancies will be filled by system seniority and MAY be restricted or partially restricted to pilots already on the base.47north wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:33 am
This section of the contract is all about base stability. In practice this means that any Q400 Captain or FO who is being displaced as a result of the reductions on that fleet in YYZ has the right to one of the vacancies on the base, either RJ or Classic Dash.
If all 196 GGN pilots bid YYZ vacancies then some would not hold a position in YYZ as junior Jazz pilots on the base have first rights to the base, but not to equipment nor seat.
Re: Bid 2019
Correctrudder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:43 amTrue. But it does not give ‘first rights’ to any specific vacancy on the base. All vacancies will be filled by system seniority and MAY be restricted or partially restricted to pilots already on the base.47north wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:33 am
This section of the contract is all about base stability. In practice this means that any Q400 Captain or FO who is being displaced as a result of the reductions on that fleet in YYZ has the right to one of the vacancies on the base, either RJ or Classic Dash.
If all 196 GGN pilots bid YYZ vacancies then some would not hold a position in YYZ as junior Jazz pilots on the base have first rights to the base, but not to equipment nor seat.
Re: Bid 2019
Plus some retirements/early retirements on top of that. Not to mention more and more going on medical leave.B1900Driver wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:20 am So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?
Let’s Go Brandon
Re: Bid 2019
Corrected number - 203 pilots from GGN signed up for Jazz and will be participating in Bid 2019-01.
If there are any GGN pilots reading this - have you been provided with guidance for equipment bidding from Jazz or ALPA? Bidding deadline is February 23rd.
If there are any GGN pilots reading this - have you been provided with guidance for equipment bidding from Jazz or ALPA? Bidding deadline is February 23rd.
Re: Bid 2019
Texted with a friend of mine who is coming over from GGN and he said he has received instruction and his bid is in.
I have not probed further so not sot sure what guidance they were given, nor what mode of bidding they were provided.
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Re: Bid 2019
So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?
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Re: Bid 2019
That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.
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Re: Bid 2019
And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.Splash wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:19 pmThat would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.
Re: Bid 2019
/ people trying to even get a call back or in to the pool.Yieldermatik wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:45 pmAnd pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.
Re: Bid 2019
Well, it depends where you seat in the pool... However, nobody knows how they choose from the pool the candidates they are putting into GS... Quit contradicting huh?Yieldermatik wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:45 pm And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.
So from we can gather here and there, there will be around 170 spots for OTS. Remove 16 OTS from January GS and 15 from February, it leaves us with 140 spots to fill in from March to December, which leads us to 14 OTS averaged until the end of the year...
Now the big question is: how do they choose who is going to be in the GS? Are we sorted by email date or by experience?
Re: Bid 2019
Those guys would have been available to AC from GGN... Instead of having 70% of flow, Jazz will now have 90%.Yieldermatik wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:45 pm I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz.
There is no downsizing in express flights, so the pool of express pilots stays the same. They are now packed into one company instead of two.
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Re: Bid 2019
It's hard to predict how this will all play out with the limited information we have now. We don't know how quickly the Q's will leave YYZ, nor how quickly the RJ's will be transferred back to Jazz. Furthermore, we don't know the rate at which we'll intake those 203 GGN pilots. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I'd say OTS hiring will be somewhat limited until just before the summer, if not later.
Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.
It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.
In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.
Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.
It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.
In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.
Re: Bid 2019
I was told by a pretty reliable source that the Ggn CRJs will not start to come over until the summer. The Q400s won’t go back until the end of 2020. The Dash 8-100s are TBD as AC is looking to keeping them a bit longer than the end of 2019.DH8Pilot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:35 am It's hard to predict how this will all play out with the limited information we have now. We don't know how quickly the Q's will leave YYZ, nor how quickly the RJ's will be transferred back to Jazz. Furthermore, we don't know the rate at which we'll intake those 203 GGN pilots. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I'd say OTS hiring will be somewhat limited until just before the summer, if not later.
Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.
It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.
In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.
The training department is ramping up for lots of training. If I had to guess I would say OTS will continue until the Ggn Pilots really start coming over and then will pause a bit to intake those pilots until OTS starts up again.
I would guess that a good number of the Ggn Pilots won’t be able to hold their current position on the CRJ, at least captains in YYZ. This may prompt more of them to flow to AC.