Bid 2019

[B1900Driver]

So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?

[rudder]

The MOS Q&A pdf stated that "Pilots in that base at the time of reduction have first choice on base vacancies"

If im interpreting this correctly, if I am reduced out of YYZ Q400, I will get first pick on the RJ over the GGN guys?

That is more or less correct. Read section 5-5 of the contract. Basically for each position reduced in YYZ off the Q, an equal number of open positions on the CRJ and/or Dash classic are considered base vacancies and those pilots based in YYZ will get first choice to bid on those positions before a pilot from another base. Since Georgian pilots technically don’t have a base on the Jazz roster , they have to bid a system vacancy and won’t necessarily get a YYZ RJ position.

Net increase in posted positions in YYZ is 150 including a net increase in 76 CA positions. Therefore, it is NOT a base bid.

All vacancies in YYZ will be filled in order of system seniority with the exception that no current YYZ based pilot can be forced off of the base.

GGN pilots do not have a base for the purpose of the bid.

[rudder]

So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?

Yup. But that is just an estimate with a lot of underlying assumptions that may change. There may also be another bid run later this year which will update the total number of pilots required and number of vacancies.

[B1900Driver]

So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?

Yup. But that is just an estimate with a lot of underlying assumptions that may change. There may also be another bid run later this year which will update the total number of pilots required and number of vacancies.

Ok, thanks for the info!! Hopefully training will pick up the pace and us in the pool get called!

[PostmasterGeneral]

So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?

Yup. But that is just an estimate with a lot of underlying assumptions that may change. There may also be another bid run later this year which will update the total number of pilots required and number of vacancies.

Ok, thanks for the info!! Hopefully training will pick up the pace and us in the pool get called!

Likely closer to the end of summer is my guess, as the jets transition over from GGN the training department will be pretty busy commensurate with that movement, as well as upgrade training to replace those who flow to AC.

[47north]

The MOS Q&A pdf stated that "Pilots in that base at the time of reduction have first choice on base vacancies"

If im interpreting this correctly, if I am reduced out of YYZ Q400, I will get first pick on the RJ over the GGN guys?

That is more or less correct. Read section 5-5 of the contract. Basically for each position reduced in YYZ off the Q, an equal number of open positions on the CRJ and/or Dash classic are considered base vacancies and those pilots based in YYZ will get first choice to bid on those positions before a pilot from another base. Since Georgian pilots technically don’t have a base on the Jazz roster , they have to bid a system vacancy and won’t necessarily get a YYZ RJ position.

Net increase in posted positions in YYZ is 150 including a net increase in 76 CA positions. Therefore, it is NOT a base bid.

All vacancies in YYZ will be filled in order of system seniority with the exception that no current YYZ based pilot can be forced off of the base.

GGN pilots do not have a base for the purpose of the bid.

Actually we are saying the same thing. Read the language:

01 All Vacancies shall be defined as base or system using the following criteria:
a) Base Vacancy:
Is a Vacancy that is restricted to a Pilot on the affected Base, if the awarding of
a Vacancy at that affected Base to a Pilot from another Base would cause a
displacement off the affected Base or a Reduction in Status. However, a
Captain may be displaced in Status by a more senior First officer on the affected
Base. This Captain then has the right to displace any junior Pilot.
b) System Vacancy:
All Vacancies other than Base Vacancies.

This section of the contract is all about base stability. In practice this means that any Q400 Captain or FO who is being displaced as a result of the reductions on that fleet in YYZ has the right to one of the vacancies on the base, either RJ or Classic Dash.

[rudder]

This section of the contract is all about base stability. In practice this means that any Q400 Captain or FO who is being displaced as a result of the reductions on that fleet in YYZ has the right to one of the vacancies on the base, either RJ or Classic Dash.

True. But it does not give ‘first rights’ to any specific vacancy on the base. All vacancies will be filled by system seniority and MAY be restricted or partially restricted to pilots already on the base.

If all 196 GGN pilots bid YYZ vacancies then some would not hold a position in YYZ as junior Jazz pilots on the base have first rights to the base, but not to equipment nor seat.

[47north]

This section of the contract is all about base stability. In practice this means that any Q400 Captain or FO who is being displaced as a result of the reductions on that fleet in YYZ has the right to one of the vacancies on the base, either RJ or Classic Dash.

True. But it does not give ‘first rights’ to any specific vacancy on the base. All vacancies will be filled by system seniority and MAY be restricted or partially restricted to pilots already on the base.

If all 196 GGN pilots bid YYZ vacancies then some would not hold a position in YYZ as junior Jazz pilots on the base have first rights to the base, but not to equipment nor seat.

Correct

[Inverted2]

So if I understand correctly, Jazz will need 376 pilots this year. 196 are coming from GGN, leaving 180 spots for OTS from today to January 2020?

Plus some retirements/early retirements on top of that. Not to mention more and more going on medical leave.

[rudder]

Corrected number - 203 pilots from GGN signed up for Jazz and will be participating in Bid 2019-01.

If there are any GGN pilots reading this - have you been provided with guidance for equipment bidding from Jazz or ALPA? Bidding deadline is February 23rd.

[Outlaw58]

Corrected number - 203 pilots from GGN signed up for Jazz and will be participating in Bid 2019-01.

If there are any GGN pilots reading this - have you been provided with guidance for equipment bidding from Jazz or ALPA? Bidding deadline is February 23rd.

Texted with a friend of mine who is coming over from GGN and he said he has received instruction and his bid is in.

I have not probed further so not sot sure what guidance they were given, nor what mode of bidding they were provided.

58

[Babar350]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

[KenoraPilot]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

[Splash]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.

[Yieldermatik]

So basically how many signed for Jazz, how many for AC? How many both ?

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.

And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.

[link821]

203 are coming to Jazz out of a possible 226.

That would be an uptake of 90%. If a small number are going directly to AC, that leaves GGN with very few pilots.

And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.

/ people trying to even get a call back or in to the pool.

[Babar350]

And pool pilots with an undefined waiting period. There’s no way of estimating when gs for us would be available, is there? I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz. Did this just cost us a year more? I’m not against them coming in, but it does affect the progression we had estimated for ourselves when we knew we were in the pool to come to jazz.

Well, it depends where you seat in the pool... However, nobody knows how they choose from the pool the candidates they are putting into GS... Quit contradicting huh?

So from we can gather here and there, there will be around 170 spots for OTS. Remove 16 OTS from January GS and 15 from February, it leaves us with 140 spots to fill in from March to December, which leads us to 14 OTS averaged until the end of the year...

Now the big question is: how do they choose who is going to be in the GS? Are we sorted by email date or by experience?

[Hilroy]

I’d also like to understand numbers on how 200 ggn pilots coming in just before us pool guys will affect our career now if we chose to pursue ac from jazz.

Those guys would have been available to AC from GGN... Instead of having 70% of flow, Jazz will now have 90%.

There is no downsizing in express flights, so the pool of express pilots stays the same. They are now packed into one company instead of two.

[DH8Pilot]

It's hard to predict how this will all play out with the limited information we have now. We don't know how quickly the Q's will leave YYZ, nor how quickly the RJ's will be transferred back to Jazz. Furthermore, we don't know the rate at which we'll intake those 203 GGN pilots. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I'd say OTS hiring will be somewhat limited until just before the summer, if not later.

Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.

It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.

In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.

[47north]

It's hard to predict how this will all play out with the limited information we have now. We don't know how quickly the Q's will leave YYZ, nor how quickly the RJ's will be transferred back to Jazz. Furthermore, we don't know the rate at which we'll intake those 203 GGN pilots. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I'd say OTS hiring will be somewhat limited until just before the summer, if not later.

Hilroy makes a good point. While the inclusion of the GGN pilots may have the immediate effect of lengthening the upgrade time and time to AC by 6-12 months for new hires, the guaranteed flow of 60% at a 90% hiring rate might mitigate that dramatically compared to what might've otherwise been the case. As stated before though, we won't know the extent of this until we see how it all plays out. Anything more now is simply an educated guess.

It's also worth noting that any GGN pilot coming already holds a seniority number above the most junior Jazz pilot on property. Therefore, any further OTS hiring would be placed at the bottom of the list behind all GGN pilots either way. What I mean by this is that for the very next OTS hire, it won't matter in terms of seniority whether they're hired tomorrow or in 6 months, as they'll still hold the same seniority.

In regards to your question of whether Jazz is still a good bet, I'd say it's now more so than ever. AC will still be hiring like crazy for the next two years, then pretty consistently after that. With 60% flow at a 90% hiring rate, movement will continue. Jazz is now centre in AC's long-term regional plans, so whether you want to stay here or leave for AC, both are extremely good options.

I was told by a pretty reliable source that the Ggn CRJs will not start to come over until the summer. The Q400s won’t go back until the end of 2020. The Dash 8-100s are TBD as AC is looking to keeping them a bit longer than the end of 2019.

The training department is ramping up for lots of training. If I had to guess I would say OTS will continue until the Ggn Pilots really start coming over and then will pause a bit to intake those pilots until OTS starts up again.

I would guess that a good number of the Ggn Pilots won’t be able to hold their current position on the CRJ, at least captains in YYZ. This may prompt more of them to flow to AC.