What's the oldest age one should consider AC

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Fanblade
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by Fanblade » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:41 am

https://business.financialpost.com/news ... oplay=true

Not predicting anything. Just posting this as an illustration. In fact as is often the case, it’s hard to understand why no one saw this coming. The Canadian Energy sector piles Billions into the Canadian economy. It’s hard to understand why spillover into the greater economy wouldn’t be expected. Well hopefully this is just a pause. One quarter doesn’t show a trend.

But back to my point. No one saw it coming.

SARS
911
2007 Great Recession
US housing crash.
Savings and Loan fiasco in the 80’s
20% interest rates in the early 80’s.
DotCom bubble of 2001.

That’s just off the top of my head.

Any other old farts what to add to the list?
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KAG
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by KAG » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:16 am

Thanks for the well thought out discussion points. I'm gonna ride it out at WJ, 5th year captain is tough to walk away from, especially with years of service and a pension on the horizon. I remember some tough times you folks went through, were now going through ours. It's a cycle, as someone said the tides out, it'll come back. The culture we once had is changed and that's fine, frankly we needed to grow up in some ways. Its still a great job.
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by Daniel Cooper » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:46 pm

Remember this is what WJ is like at the best of the best times economy wise.
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by rudder » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:25 pm

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fruitloops
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by fruitloops » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:17 pm

Incredible that a WJ CA could be at that point of a career decision making process, I guess that climate over there is that bad. However...I think its a good decision KAG to stay where you are, as much as I like AC & how happy I'm here, i don't think you would find enough of a difference in co. culture or management's discretion/planning to make up for the serious loss of pay and seniority you would have. The bottom dregs of AC flat pay and being on reserve for part of it is not worth seeking out those 'potential' differences. Stick it out, be a clock puncher, focus on your life outside of flying more for now, things will inevitably stabilize or improve.
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by yycflyguy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:10 am

jpilot77 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:25 pm
The options on the 787 were not exercised for the time being. The options were not canceled.
This was my understanding too. I thought they were delaying options because ULR had to be negotiated with ACPA and the direction TC was going to take with Flight/duty limits and augmentation left too many unknowns to exercise the options.... of course I also heard AC wanted to negotiate rouge conditions onto the 787s to save a buck on their desire to start BKK, MAN, SIN - which is an easy no vote for me.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by Zaibatsu » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:16 am

Sometimes jumping ship is a good thing.

Sometimes it’s not.

Back in the early mid 2000s when Jazz was paying peanuts and it took most of a decade to upgrade a jump to Westjet seemed like the way to go with their huge expansion and fast upgrades. But the music stopped and FOs are waiting a long time to upgrade.

Those who stuck it out at Jazz probably went PML 1.0 and are narrow body captain or a WB FO blockholder with the world their oyster for the rest of their career.

It’s a lottery, this industry is.
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danield
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by danield » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:10 pm

My response would be age 50. 10-15 years gives you enough time to retire in the top half of a NB CA or WB FO list with somewhat of a pension at 65. 4 years to 200k on WB FO or 2-3 years to junior NB CA at 220k. Or you can remain senior NB FO and still make 120k+ after 4 years.
Take home on flat pay is pretty good compared to other airlines. Year 1 flat pay take home approximately $4200.00 and Year 4 approximately $5600.00 with ample overtime opportunity should you need it. I think if I remember correctly WestJet CA take home is approximately $6000.00 after ESOP and benefits. Entry level positions available allow you to work as much (NB FO) or as little (WB RP) as you wish.
After 4 years you have virtually every position at your disposal and the pay is good regardless of what you are on. You can chase the extra $ or enjoy a good lifestyle for still a very good wage.
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FL-280
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by FL-280 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm

50!???!!? Damn man. I am just under thirty and thinking of not going, not for my age but for the seniority I will have. AC has hired massive amounts in the last three years, times are good, real good. Bad times follow good times.

Everyone seems to forget this is a cyclical industry. I dont know maybe I am just really pessimist
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danield
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by danield » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:10 am

FL-280 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm
50!???!!? Damn man. I am just under thirty and thinking of not going, not for my age but for the seniority I will have. AC has hired massive amounts in the last three years, times are good, real good. Bad times follow good times.

Everyone seems to forget this is a cyclical industry. I dont know maybe I am just really pessimist
Yes as extreme as my answer may sound, your post is the precise reason why. The industry is cyclical. This wave will certainly not last forever, however why not improve your situation and solidify a seniority number while the getting is good. Even the lowest paying positions will yield more money down the road AND better job security than one would experience as a WestJet CA.
At my previous employer this was a frequent question asked in the crew room, many said 40-50. I say 50 if you intend on flying to 65. 15 years gives you a good career at AC, 20+ years gives you an excellent career. The question is who do you count on to be around in an economic downturn. No amount of seniority will protect you from bankruptcy. Whether you are at WestJet, Jazz, Transat, Sunwing, AC we are all at the mercy of the industry.
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by altiplano » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:53 pm

FL-280 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm
50!???!!? Damn man. I am just under thirty and thinking of not going, not for my age but for the seniority I will have.
All the power to you...

But I"d urge that you need to rethink this though...

In your 20's and thinking you won't get enough seniority because too many people are hired recently ahead of you?

There will always be someone ahead of you...someone younger than you... you just can't compare... you will never be the most senior... you can't control that.

in this biz you have to look at the merits of the position and the probabilities.

The probability is, if you were hired at 30, you will work a 30-35 year career and retire with a pension as a relatively senior wide body Captain, after making a pile of money flying around the world, and you'll have a pretty good time doing it all...

I was hired older than that and I watched lots of guys junior to, less experienced, and younger than me get hired into AC when I had been trying for years. Frustrating to see so many get on ahead of me, I wondered if I was at the back of the wave when my call came... but turning it down out of spite would have been an enormous mistake.

Good luck with your decision.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by Daniel Cooper » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:49 pm

Isn't how many are below you more important than how many are above you? There's a lot of very good positions at AC and only a few that are not so great. As long as there are people below you to fill those roles you are golden. If they are hiring 1000 over the next 3 years there is going to be a lot of people below you if you join now.
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by Observer » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:24 am

altiplano wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:53 pm
FL-280 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm
50!???!!? Damn man. I am just under thirty and thinking of not going, not for my age but for the seniority I will have.
All the power to you...

But I"d urge that you need to rethink this though...

In your 20's and thinking you won't get enough seniority because too many people are hired recently ahead of you?

There will always be someone ahead of you...someone younger than you... you just can't compare... you will never be the most senior... you can't control that.

in this biz you have to look at the merits of the position and the probabilities.

The probability is, if you were hired at 30, you will work a 30-35 year career and retire with a pension as a relatively senior wide body Captain, after making a pile of money flying around the world, and you'll have a pretty good time doing it all...

I was hired older than that and I watched lots of guys junior to, less experienced, and younger than me get hired into AC when I had been trying for years. Frustrating to see so many get on ahead of me, I wondered if I was at the back of the wave when my call came... but turning it down out of spite would have been an enormous mistake.

Good luck with your decision.
Very well said! The best time to plant a tree was yesterday. The next best time is today. :D
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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by RVR6000 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:00 am

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:49 pm
Isn't how many are below you more important than how many are above you? There's a lot of very good positions at AC and only a few that are not so great. As long as there are people below you to fill those roles you are golden. If they are hiring 1000 over the next 3 years there is going to be a lot of people below you if you join now.

Agree, if you can live with year 1-2 pay a lot of good positions open up relatively quickly. Off-reserve 777/787 FO is a pretty good gig, Rouge 767 or 319 FO for it’s socialized aspect are great to ride out the few years of crappy pay. It doesn’t take that many guys below you for these positions to open up. Junior captain usually hovers around 80-85% system wide seniority.
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Last edited by RVR6000 on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's the oldest age one should consider AC

Post by RVR6000 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:10 pm

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