Atlas Air 767
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Re: Atlas Air 767
Source; AVHERALD,
“On Mar 5th 2019 the NTSB reported the download of the CVR was successfully completed, the last portion of the accident flight is available on the 2 hours' recording, the quality of the recording however is poor and it was difficult to determine what was being said, occasionally required advanced filter techniques. The aircraft was being vectored for an approach to Houston Intercontinental's airport's runway 26L. The NTSB stated: "Crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft began approximately 18 seconds prior to the end of the recording." The FDR was also successfully read out, 54 hours of flight data spanning 17 flights were downloaded. The recorder stores about 350 parameters. The investigators are currently verifying and validating the FDR data. A transcript of the CVR is estimated to be compiled during the next week (Mar 11th and following).”
“On Mar 5th 2019 the NTSB reported the download of the CVR was successfully completed, the last portion of the accident flight is available on the 2 hours' recording, the quality of the recording however is poor and it was difficult to determine what was being said, occasionally required advanced filter techniques. The aircraft was being vectored for an approach to Houston Intercontinental's airport's runway 26L. The NTSB stated: "Crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft began approximately 18 seconds prior to the end of the recording." The FDR was also successfully read out, 54 hours of flight data spanning 17 flights were downloaded. The recorder stores about 350 parameters. The investigators are currently verifying and validating the FDR data. A transcript of the CVR is estimated to be compiled during the next week (Mar 11th and following).”
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
Re: Atlas Air 767
From NTSB, released today:
About 12:38, the controller informed the pilots that they would be past the area of weather in about 18 miles, that they could expect a turn to the north for a base leg to the approach to runway 26L, and that weather was clear west of the precipitation area. The pilots responded, “sounds good” and “ok.” At this time, radar and ADS-B returns indicated the airplane levelled briefly at 6,200 ft and then began a slight climb to 6,300 ft.
Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
About 12:38, the controller informed the pilots that they would be past the area of weather in about 18 miles, that they could expect a turn to the north for a base leg to the approach to runway 26L, and that weather was clear west of the precipitation area. The pilots responded, “sounds good” and “ok.” At this time, radar and ADS-B returns indicated the airplane levelled briefly at 6,200 ft and then began a slight climb to 6,300 ft.
Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Re: Atlas Air 767
LETUN wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
About 12:38, the controller informed the pilots that they would be past the area of weather in about 18 miles, that they could expect a turn to the north for a base leg to the approach to runway 26L, and that weather was clear west of the precipitation area. The pilots responded, “sounds good” and “ok.” At this time, radar and ADS-B returns indicated the airplane levelled briefly at 6,200 ft and then began a slight climb to 6,300 ft.
Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. (NTSB corrected their statement to reflect,” in response to elevator deflection”) The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Re: Atlas Air 767
Can I get everyone's thoughts now that this has been released. I'm having a hard time with this one; wings level, max thrust and all. I'm finding myself drawing conclusions that I would rather not think about.
Re: Atlas Air 767
Something tells me that this investigation is going to go quiet til the final report
Re: Atlas Air 767
sounds like the autopilot went into antistall or go around and the elevator failed.
Turbulence broke the old plane and it crashed.
Turbulence broke the old plane and it crashed.
Re: Atlas Air 767
Can you expand on the antistall system and it's operation?
Is go around also a function? 6000' seems like an odd place for a go around?
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
Re: Atlas Air 767
no, i was just making something up as per the previous comment.
However, the quick release from ntsb said they hit turbulence and shortly after nose dived.
Why else would throttles go full?
Re: Atlas Air 767
Does turbulence and a nose dive usually command full thrust?Heliian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 amno, i was just making something up as per the previous comment.
However, the quick release from ntsb said they hit turbulence and shortly after nose dived.
Why else would throttles go full?
I think it would be unusual for autothrottle to remain at full thrust in a nose dive?
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
-
- Rank 6
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:42 pm
Re: Atlas Air 767
Unless it was intentional.telex wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:02 amDoes turbulence and a nose dive usually command full thrust?
I think it would be unusual for autothrottle to remain at full thrust in a nose dive?
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1966
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
Power causes most aircraft to pitch upward. Flight control problem, can't control pitch, so worth a shot with power. I could see it as a last ditch effort to try and save the day.
Hypothetical discussion, I know nothing of the actual details.
Hypothetical discussion, I know nothing of the actual details.
Re: Atlas Air 767
Seems to say it all right there....LETUN wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
-
- Rank 6
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:32 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
Possibly left the speed brake deployed from the crossing restriction. What speed does the 767 maintain if doing a LVL CHG? 245?C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pmSeems to say it all right there....LETUN wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Re: Atlas Air 767
It maintains whatever speed is selected in the speed window.ReserveTank wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:54 pmPossibly left the speed brake deployed from the crossing restriction. What speed does the 767 maintain if doing a LVL CHG? 245?C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pmSeems to say it all right there....LETUN wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
Re: Atlas Air 767
It was the 49 degree nose down in response to control input. Not the 230 kts I was pointing to...ReserveTank wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:54 pmPossibly left the speed brake deployed from the crossing restriction. What speed does the 767 maintain if doing a LVL CHG? 245?C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pmSeems to say it all right there....LETUN wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Re: Atlas Air 767
I have been worried about this.C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pmSeems to say it all right there....LETUN wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.
FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Re: Atlas Air 767
If you read the previous posts or reread the current linked article it was changed to read "elevator deflection" and not "column input".
If it was intentional, I'm sure you'll hear the other two people in the cockpit fighting it and case closed. If you hear all 3 wondering what the @#$! happened, then it would be something else.
If it was intentional, I'm sure you'll hear the other two people in the cockpit fighting it and case closed. If you hear all 3 wondering what the @#$! happened, then it would be something else.
Re: Atlas Air 767
This accident has me worried. Jump seater from other airline. Reminds me of fedex in the 80’s. I really hope that my fears are wrong.
Re: Atlas Air 767
The jump seater just got hired at a major (American?) and was supposed to start ground school shortly.
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.