Esop reduction..

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Malfunction
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 11:00 am

Esop reduction..

Post by Malfunction »

Employee esop is being reduced from 60% to 25%. Well what's the point anymore?
---------- ADS -----------
 
47north
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:44 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by 47north »

Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:14 pm Employee esop is being reduced from 60% to 25%. Well what's the point anymore?
Not for the pilots. Still 60% as per the MOS.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Dash.Trash
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:48 pm

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Dash.Trash »

47north wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:21 pm
Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:14 pm Employee esop is being reduced from 60% to 25%. Well what's the point anymore?
Not for the pilots. Still 60% as per the MOS.
It’s 25 + 20% (as per MOS). So 45%.
---------- ADS -----------
 
dhc#
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:38 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by dhc# »

So the pilots agree to a long term contract and then Chorus conveniently reduces this "benefit" shortly thereafter ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Outlaw58
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Outlaw58 »

Here's another way to look at it...

If we didn't sign the contract, nothing prevented the company from reducing ESOP anyway and we'd be at 25% instead of 45%...

Glass half-full, glass Half empty

58
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rowdy
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5165
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: On Borrowed Wings

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Rowdy »

'Industry standard'.

The farce of this MOS continues.
---------- ADS -----------
 
GhostRider6
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:14 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by GhostRider6 »

What? C’mon!

Two weeks is more than ample time to decide 17 years !!

What’s wrong with you?
( hopefully you Catch the sarcasm)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Malfunction
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 11:00 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Malfunction »

Jazz is not a career company for me anymore. It's great dont get me wrong. but the company is clear they dont want people to stay here.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Yycjetdriver
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Yycjetdriver »

Just negotiate a higher esop in the next contract. (Also note my sarcasm).

:rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
 
PostmasterGeneral
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:50 pm

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:22 pm Jazz is not a career company for me anymore. It's great dont get me wrong. but the company is clear they dont want people to stay here.
You’ve already applied at AC anyways so what’s the problem? You’ll be gone soon enough.

ESOP was never guaranteed, so if a 15% cut is what makes it no longer a “career” place for you then so be it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by mbav8r »

First of all when the ESOP was introduced it was at 33 1/3% match, then up to 60 for the last few years.
November 2017, a message to all employees from Joe Randal regarding the ESOP stated that although the board approved another year of 60% match, the average employer match is 25-30% and a “move to a more market competitive level is expected in the future”
I don’t know about you but when the CEO tells the employees over a year in advance to expect a reduction, expect the friggen reduction.
Our new contract included a 20% over the ESOP for other employees up to a max of 60%, when I saw that in the MOS, guess what I knew there was going to be a reduction, why else would our negotiations include a top up.
If this caught you off guard, you weren’t paying attention, 45% is enough for me to stay in, if it dropped to the bare 20% which would mean no other employees were getting anything, I’d be out.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
Malfunction
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 11:00 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Malfunction »

mbav8r wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:52 pm First of all when the ESOP was introduced it was at 33 1/3% match, then up to 60 for the last few years.
November 2017, a message to all employees from Joe Randal regarding the ESOP stated that although the board approved another year of 60% match, the average employer match is 25-30% and a “move to a more market competitive level is expected in the future”
I don’t know about you but when the CEO tells the employees over a year in advance to expect a reduction, expect the friggen reduction.
Our new contract included a 20% over the ESOP for other employees up to a max of 60%, when I saw that in the MOS, guess what I knew there was going to be a reduction, why else would our negotiations include a top up.
If this caught you off guard, you weren’t paying attention, 45% is enough for me to stay in, if it dropped to the bare 20% which would mean no other employees were getting anything, I’d be out.
I believe when it started it was 100% match.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mixturerich
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:04 pm

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by mixturerich »

Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:22 pm Jazz is not a career company for me anymore. It's great dont get me wrong. but the company is clear they dont want people to stay here.
Nah, they just know people will leave anyways. Still a good company to work for. Not sure what you were expecting?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Malfunction
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 11:00 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Malfunction »

mixturerich wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:49 am
Malfunction wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:22 pm Jazz is not a career company for me anymore. It's great dont get me wrong. but the company is clear they dont want people to stay here.
Nah, they just know people will leave anyways. Still a good company to work for. Not sure what you were expecting?
Never said it was a bad company to work for. For myself and I can only speak for myself it's not a place to hang my hat. Cheers
---------- ADS -----------
 
AZ382
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by AZ382 »

It's when the CEO states that the reduction in match is due to concessions they had to take in fees and performance incentive payments from AC due to this 17 CPA that it makes it feel like a stab in the back. So the Jazz pilot group drops 15% to 45 while the rest not locked into a collective agreement take a 35% hit.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rowdy
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5165
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: On Borrowed Wings

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Rowdy »

mbav8r wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:52 pm First of all when the ESOP was introduced it was at 33 1/3% match, then up to 60 for the last few years.
'This is above industry standard, you're lucky to get it' Then we negotiate something in our contract and they slash it. No surprises there. Most of us saw it coming. I actually laughed when I read the blurb in the MOS. Most of the FO's can't afford to contribute to it anyways..

BTW- AC is 33.33%. WJ is 100% (as is WJE). Some of our other AIRLINE comparators are higher now, but a lot of the non airline ones are lower. Whatever. When cane we up the percentage of purchase? We can now go up to 20% can we not? Instead of the paltry 6%.

I'll stay in til we lose the dividend, or the match drops to our negotiated minimum. Then I'm out and I'll dump all my shares. Zero loyalties.
---------- ADS -----------
 
mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by mbav8r »

Rowdy wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:34 pm
mbav8r wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:52 pm First of all when the ESOP was introduced it was at 33 1/3% match, then up to 60 for the last few years.
'This is above industry standard, you're lucky to get it' Then we negotiate something in our contract and they slash it. No surprises there. Most of us saw it coming. I actually laughed when I read the blurb in the MOS. Most of the FO's can't afford to contribute to it anyways..

BTW- AC is 33.33%. WJ is 100% (as is WJE). Some of our other AIRLINE comparators are higher now, but a lot of the non airline ones are lower. Whatever. When cane we up the percentage of purchase? We can now go up to 20% can we not? Instead of the paltry 6%.

I'll stay in til we lose the dividend, or the match drops to our negotiated minimum. Then I'm out and I'll dump all my shares. Zero loyalties.
Yes but WJ/WJE don’t have a pention, DC or otherwise, ESOP is the pension.
As for our contribution, it’s still 6% max
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
User avatar
daedalusx
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by daedalusx »

Serves you right. You sold off the next generation of pilots purely in the hope of getting an AC seat that would have gotten anyways. Enjoys those C4 passes and having AC rampies bump you to the back of the slave ship when you’re deadheading.
---------- ADS -----------
 
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
Malfunction
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 11:00 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by Malfunction »

daedalusx wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:52 pm Serves you right. You sold off the next generation of pilots purely in the hope of getting an AC seat that would have gotten anyways. Enjoys those C4 passes and having AC rampies bump you to the back of the slave ship when you’re deadheading.
Why are you angry with the pilots. Its management who are pulling all the strings and have been cutting wages and passes
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
daedalusx
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Esop reduction..

Post by daedalusx »

Malfunction wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:09 pm
daedalusx wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:52 pm Serves you right. You sold off the next generation of pilots purely in the hope of getting an AC seat that would have gotten anyways. Enjoys those C4 passes and having AC rampies bump you to the back of the slave ship when you’re deadheading.
Why are you angry with the pilots. Its management who are pulling all the strings and have been cutting wages and passes
Because it was the one time in so so many years that us as a pilot group had a chance to turns things around and set a positive trend and 72% of my peers took the cowardly way around. You don’t get what you’re worth, you get what you negotiate. There was a real threat in 2015 and I don’t blame the Jazz guys from signing that agreement as they had absolutely no leverage. This time it was different, we were bailing out Georgian in a middle of a pilot shortage and we sold out an entire generation of future pilots. I’m not angry at the pilots, just extremely disappointed. And BTW, bailing Georgian should have come at the cost of us getting real POS J class DH and C2s but our negotiation committee settled for the lone fat chick because they didn’t have the courage to go ask out the cute one.
---------- ADS -----------
 
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
Post Reply

Return to “Jazz Aviation LP - Air Canada Express”