King Air at Gillam, MB

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703doge
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by 703doge »

The ad probably has to do more with the pay and morale, than the accident.
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fish4life
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by fish4life »

I'm not saying that it is what happened but the routing it sounds like from the RCMP was YWG - YYQ. If this aircraft landed in YWG with YBR or YQK as an alternate thats about 30-45 ish mins of gas + 45 mins of reserve gas... about 1:30 will get you awfully close to Gillam if fuel was ordered in YWG but never arrived.
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C.W.E.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by C.W.E. »

Does the route make any difference if you don't have enough fuel to finish the flight?
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

FICU wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:59 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:22 pm By the above photo, high float landing gear, wing lockers, and 3-bladed props?

That’s gotta be FRMV...
Thanks... I have a lot of time in CGT and ZPW from 15 years ago. Tough to see that happen to a company I spent over 6 years at.
CGT is mothballed outside the shell hangar in YWG. Missing it’s engines, tail, etc.

ZPW is still flying as far as I know.
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FICU
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by FICU »

PostmasterGeneral wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:00 pm CGT is mothballed outside the shell hangar in YWG. Missing it’s engines, tail, etc.

ZPW is still flying as far as I know.
RIP CGT... it was a workhorse!
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

One of the nicest flying straight -200’s I ever had the pleasure of driving. Serial number 003 was she?
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Jug
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Jug »

C-FCGT was BB159. An ex Air Ontario machine.
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FICU
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by FICU »

Was at Wasaya before KAL got it. I really enjoyed the performance it had with the Raisebeck mod and 4 bladed props and no autopilot. A completely different animal to ZPW. Those photos were taken from ZPW on a return flight to Rankin from Churchill. John F. was flying CGT with Tanice and I had Tim P. with me taking the pics. We had some formation fun and great times when it was a Mom and Pop company!
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FICU
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by FICU »

A couple more for nostalgia...
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iflyforpie
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by iflyforpie »

goingnowherefast wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:22 pm Except on a King Air, you transfer the aux fuel into the mains as there's room to accept it. By landing time, they'd long since have emptied the aux tanks and be running on the main tanks. Fuel would have been mixed long ago.

It will be interesting to see what the real investigators discover.
The auxes are transferred directly to the nacelle tank via the jet pump and to the engine. A flapper valve keeps the main fuel from entering the nacelle tank until the auxes are empty and the nacelle level/pressure drops due to the jet pump stopping.

It is possible for main fuel to be contaminated and aux fuel to not be. Unlikely, but possible.
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rigpiggy
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by rigpiggy »

Its been a while since flying the KA200. The aux fuel, is it electrically pump or does it use the jet pumps from bypass fuel? I seem to recall that if there is no fuel in the mains, it wont transfer? Maybe an alternate theory was lineman filled wrong tank, and in hurry crew simply looked at total litres, but not enough fuel in the mains to siphon all from the aux's...... and tried to stretch it.
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iflyforpie
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by iflyforpie »

It uses a jet pump that takes fuel from the motive flow valve and the engine driven boost pump.

It’s nacelle fuel that you need. If you don’t have nacelle fuel, you’ve got more problems.

You’re not supposed to have empty mains and full auxes, and it’s not really possible to burn the mains and the nacelle dry first on both engines unless both motive flow valves are stuck closed and you’ve got both no fuel transfer lights on.

But yeah... I don’t know how you don’t grab enough gas either. Order the fuel, watch them fuel, get the fuel ticket and look at the amount, look at the gauges, read the checklist. Not one but two of you.
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MUSKEG
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by MUSKEG »

I believe they declared a fuel emergency shortly before actual event. Fuel gauges on this aircraft are not great and are MELable. Been there done that. If they were, there is no cockpit indication of fuel on board and first indication would be the fuel pressure light. For whatever reason they didn’t have the fuel they thought they had.
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yhz41
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by yhz41 »

These aircraft are G1000 equipped. Provided you punch in the right fuel load on start up it will automatically calculate what you will have on descent and be reasonably accurate.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

iflyforpie wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:51 pm
The auxes are transferred directly to the nacelle tank via the jet pump and to the engine. A flapper valve keeps the main fuel from entering the nacelle tank until the auxes are empty and the nacelle level/pressure drops due to the jet pump stopping.

It is possible for main fuel to be contaminated and aux fuel to not be. Unlikely, but possible.
[/quote]

Since the mains are always filled first, and the aux are always burned first......possible, you say? When pigs fly.
They ran out of gas.....still nobody willing to stand on their hind legs and say it?
Cheers
Illya
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greygoose
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by greygoose »

Since the mains are always filled first, and the aux are always burned first......possible, you say? When pigs fly.
They ran out of gas.....still nobody willing to stand on their hind legs and say it?
With a huge Mb medevac contract under decision you can bet EIC will be doing all they can to brush this under the rug as Keewatin was their best player to do bidding with. I’m actually surprised the LifeFlight/union folks and gov opposition aren’t using this as ammo against the privatization.
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iflyforpie
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by iflyforpie »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:01 am [quote=iflyforpie post_id=<a href="tel:1076459">1076459</a> time=<a href="tel:1556419860">1556419860</a> user_id=16238]
The auxes are transferred directly to the nacelle tank via the jet pump and to the engine. A flapper valve keeps the main fuel from entering the nacelle tank until the auxes are empty and the nacelle level/pressure drops due to the jet pump stopping.

It is possible for main fuel to be contaminated and aux fuel to not be. Unlikely, but possible.
[/quote]

Since the mains are always filled first, and the aux are always burned first......possible, you say? When pigs fly.
They ran out of gas.....still nobody willing to stand on their hind legs and say it?
Cheers
Illya
[/quote]

Stranger things have happened.

Sediment or water is going to be the first thing drawn out of a tank. First into the mains held back from the engine by the flapper valve, and will go to the lowest point on the nacelle tank as soon as auxes are dry.

I don’t really care if they ran out of gas or didn’t. They probably did. Why is that so important to you?
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porcsord
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by porcsord »

Doc just wants to blame people.

That being said, it does take some skill to either have a dual engine failure or run out of fuel in a twin turbine. I can think of a couple instances, but it's pretty rare. I'm willing to bet that the combined experience in the cockpit totals less than the average of our King Air F/Os.... pay peanuts....
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bobcaygeon
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by bobcaygeon »

porcsord wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:39 pm Doc just wants to blame people.

That being said, it does take some skill to either have a dual engine failure or run out of fuel in a twin turbine. I can think of a couple instances, but it's pretty rare. I'm willing to bet that the combined experience in the cockpit totals less than the average of our King Air F/Os.... pay peanuts....
I heard they are in the middle of pilot contract negots. Tough to negotiate with the boss if they did burn the tanks dry.....
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

iflyforpie wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:54 pm
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:01 am [quote=iflyforpie post_id=<a href="tel:1076459">1076459</a> time=<a href="tel:1556419860">1556419860</a> user_id=16238]
The auxes are transferred directly to the nacelle tank via the jet pump and to the engine. A flapper valve keeps the main fuel from entering the nacelle tank until the auxes are empty and the nacelle level/pressure drops due to the jet pump stopping.

It is possible for main fuel to be contaminated and aux fuel to not be. Unlikely, but possible.
Since the mains are always filled first, and the aux are always burned first......possible, you say? When pigs fly.
They ran out of gas.....still nobody willing to stand on their hind legs and say it?
Cheers
Illya
[/quote]

Stranger things have happened.

Sediment or water is going to be the first thing drawn out of a tank. First into the mains held back from the engine by the flapper valve, and will go to the lowest point on the nacelle tank as soon as auxes are dry.

I don’t really care if they ran out of gas or didn’t. They probably did. Why is that so important to you?
[/quote]

Why is it important to me? Seriously? Doesn't bother you to have crews flying around running out of gas? Bothers me.
Illya
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