King Air at Gillam, MB

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FlyGy
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by FlyGy »

So, where are these guys getting their information?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20190424-1

"Initial data gathered by the TSB indicates that the aircraft departed CYWG with an insufficient quantity of fuel on board for the intended flight."
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

FlyGy wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:52 pm So, where are these guys getting their information?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20190424-1

"Initial data gathered by the TSB indicates that the aircraft departed CYWG with an insufficient quantity of fuel on board for the intended flight."
Shimmy....you reading this. Hello centre, we have a fuel leak is a classic butt cover attempt. PT6’s are great engines.....but ya gots to feed ‘em.
These guys are not heroes for not killing their passengers, they should be VERY UNEMPLOYED for putting their passengers in jeopardy in the first place. Passengers have the right to expect NOT to run out of gas.
Illya
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

If I’d had a family member on that aircraft, I’d be suing the crap out of all involved.
Illya
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shimmydampner
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by shimmydampner »

I am reading it. Would have been my first guess. I never suggested otherwise. However I do find these incidents are an interesting exercise to try to imagine alternative causes beyond the obvious. Call it looking for ways to give the crew the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty. I can stand to wait until the facts come to light before hanging 'em high.
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C.W.E.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by C.W.E. »

The more accidents one has the more that pilot knows about aviation, because in this era of flying accidents are learning experiences.

Sadly some of us just never got to learn anything.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

C.W.E. wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 2:31 pm The more accidents one has the more that pilot knows about aviation, because in this era of flying accidents are learning experiences.

Sadly some of us just never got to learn anything.
In the words of General Patton
The idea isn’t to die for your country, but to get some other poor SOB to die for his.
Illya
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digits_
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by digits_ »

FlyGy wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:52 pm So, where are these guys getting their information?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20190424-1

"Initial data gathered by the TSB indicates that the aircraft departed CYWG with an insufficient quantity of fuel on board for the intended flight."
Just a guess, but the crew probably confessed to the TSB. Any investigation would have taken waaaaaay longer.
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The Hammer
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by The Hammer »

FlyGy wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:52 pm So, where are these guys getting their information?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20190424-1

"Initial data gathered by the TSB indicates that the aircraft departed CYWG with an insufficient quantity of fuel on board for the intended flight."
The TSB has already provided very limited additional details that you just have to be well connected to see them ie not joe public
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corethatthermal
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by corethatthermal »

As a fellow pilot who knows i am supposed to be part of the ole boys club ( like the cops ) I am defending the pilots amazing actions in taking a crippled A/C to a miraculous and safe landing. I know that only an idiot would even consider landing on a 30000 foot multi-directional runway (lake ) without the express written permission of the company chief pilot and transport canada ! :lol:
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trey kule
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by trey kule »

So corethe thermal...

Why did you depart with insufficient fuel? :smt040


......just harmless speculation on my part
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Last edited by trey kule on Mon May 06, 2019 7:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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trey kule
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by trey kule »

So corethe thermal...

Why did you depart with insufficient fuel? :smt040
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FlyGy
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by FlyGy »

The Hammer wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 2:59 pm
FlyGy wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:52 pm So, where are these guys getting their information?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20190424-1

"Initial data gathered by the TSB indicates that the aircraft departed CYWG with an insufficient quantity of fuel on board for the intended flight."
The TSB has already provided very limited additional details that you just have to be well connected to see them ie not joe public
Ahhhh...Joe Public. That would be me. Until a few years ago I didn't even know about the CADORS. Since there was nothing there, I thought perhaps that website was misquoting or something.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

digits_ wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 2:53 pm
FlyGy wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 1:52 pm So, where are these guys getting their information?

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20190424-1

"Initial data gathered by the TSB indicates that the aircraft departed CYWG with an insufficient quantity of fuel on board for the intended flight."
Just a guess, but the crew probably confessed to the TSB. Any investigation would have taken waaaaaay longer.
Wouldn’t take long. Airplane lands. TSB asks to see the fuel slip before the fateful trip. No slip, you say? Easy conclusion.
I’ve done one or two medevacs......aircraft was always filled after a trip. Immediately after.
Why not here?
This is reckless endangerment of the flight nurses. This isn’t a simple ooops.
Cheers
Illya
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trey kule
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by trey kule »

So, to treat this as the learning experience so many say come as a result of speculation.

I could be wrong about this, but I do not think this is the first time a pilot or crew has departed with insufficient fuel and it has ended badly.
I have to ask. How many posters here had to read about this to conclude that one should depart with sufficient fuel.? Or need to be reminded about it!

I am with Illya on this one BOTH crew members should be looking for work...in a different industry where stupidity does not carry the same consequences.
Oopsies happen to everyone occasionally, but I have only seldom seen attitudes change and that is the very real future danger. This crew was lucky....lucky. Lucky...it did not end up more tragically.

Reread the posts. Some people were congratulating the pilots on doing a great job! A multimillion dollar plane turned into scrap. Trusting pax lives endangered. Company reputation trashed. Because.....lets trot out the rationalizations here kids.
Maybe we should start a new thread about how pilots’ wages are to low, and professionalism.

My rant for the day.
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FighterPilot
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by FighterPilot »

This got me thinking. If they were going YWG-YYQ, why didn’t they at some point say “Oh @#$!, we’re low on gas.” Divert to YTH which is on the way, get some gas then sheepishly explain their mistake to company.
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Victory
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by Victory »

lol Doc was right.

Pilot error again.
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digits_
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by digits_ »

trey kule wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 10:01 am So, to treat this as the learning experience so many say come as a result of speculation.

I could be wrong about this, but I do not think this is the first time a pilot or crew has departed with insufficient fuel and it has ended badly.
I have to ask. How many posters here had to read about this to conclude that one should depart with sufficient fuel.? Or need to be reminded about it!
The point is that, initially, you did not know they didn't take enough fuel. Strong suspicion? Maybe. But the least you can do before you crucify the crew is wait until it has been proven they didn't put enough fuel in the plane.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by digits_ »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 9:33 am Wouldn’t take long. Airplane lands. TSB asks to see the fuel slip before the fateful trip. No slip, you say? Easy conclusion.
As soon as one party objects to those findings, there will be a full blown investigation. It would take months/years to publish the findings to make sure all bases are covered.

In your example, hypotheticallly, TSB asks the pilots for the fuel slip.
Pilots don't have it, they gave it to dispatch.
Dispatch already filed all receipts.
They go through receipts, but the fuel slip is missing.
Accounting says it's not uncommon for fuel slips to go missing, pilots sometimes lose them.

They go to the fueler the company typically uses. They ask for fuel receipts.
They don't remember fueling that plane before it departed, but they have 2 receipts where the call sign is written a bit unreadable, could be theirs, could be someone elses.

Pilots claimed the fuel indicators showed enough fuel in the plane. Test the gauges and sensors. Was there a sticky gauge? Were there any leaks?

Some of those arguments can be bullshit or lies, but my point is, if the TSB has to investigate, it would take a long time. The only explanation I see for the information to be quickly published, is that all parties involved agreed that they ran out of fuel.

Further investigation could still be valuable. I doubt pilots would intentionally and conciously leave with a severe fuel shortage. Is there a history of the plane having unreliable fuel gauges? Over reliance on other people fueling the plane for you? Extremely rushed? Not following checklists or SOPs? Extremely fatigued and hallucinating? You don't know yet.

And/or they could be completely incompetent. It's a possiblity.
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 9:33 am I’ve done one or two medevacs......aircraft was always filled after a trip. Immediately after.
Why not here?
Trusting other people to fuel your plane? What could possibly go wrong.
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 9:33 am This is reckless endangerment of the flight nurses. This isn’t a simple ooops.
Possibly yes.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by trey kule »

Digits

You are not the leader of liberal party....why are you not answering my questions directly?

And let me add one more...Were you really not able to just sit back and wait for a bit?

To recap....Did you really need this accident to learn to take sufficient fuel?
Or to remind you of the importance of fuel?

My thoughts is if you did , aviation is not a profession for you.

I give Doc a pass on speculation. Two inop engines is pretty much a no brainer as to cause.
A fuel issue. Contaminated or not there.
He simply was stating the rather obvious.
It is telling how so many are in such a rush to speculate....”to learn” of course.

There have always been “that guy” wanting to show how clever they were by speculating. Butthe internet has made it possible for them to group together rather than behind the hangar.
It saddens me that so many simply go on and on without the facts.
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Last edited by trey kule on Tue May 07, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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digits_
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB

Post by digits_ »

trey kule wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 11:52 am Digits

You are not the leader of liberal party....why are you not answering my questions directly?
I only saw one question?

"How many posters here had to read about this to conclude that one should depart with sufficient fuel.? "

The answer to that is irrelevant. It doesn't support your point (which I believe is "speculation is irrelevant"?) and it doesn't prove the other point "speculation is a learning experience" wrong either.
So completely irrelevant.

If you want answers, here are a few: zero, 5, 100. The discussion will continue in the same way, regardless of the selected answer.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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