Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by altiplano »

7 knots, 37 knots... It's the Captains right to determine a safe and appropriate taxi speed relevant conditions and other factors...

Maybe gate not yet available, middle of the night so traffic impedance us not a factor at that time, maybe tired after long day and diversion, maybe a new Captain, lots of those these days, maybe uncertain on the taxi route... or maybe just padding some block growth... take it slow... it's your operation to manage...

I've never been given a hard time about the speed I choose to taxi at to best safely accommodate my needs.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Victory »

No airline I have worked at has said it is the Captain's right to taxi at any speed they want.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by altiplano »

Victory wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm No airline I have worked at has said it is the Captain's right to taxi at any speed they want.
appropriate taxi speed relevant conditions and other factors
They certainly don't tell you what taxi speed to use though. It's your responsibility to use your judgement.

Have you never done a slow taxi because stoc said your crew/gate wasn't available? Or a complicated taxi route? Or you got a rwy change after pushback and the FO is inputting the new performance/sid into the box? Or you're on a ramp?

Saying a crew should be shot or given a time out on the deice pad for taxing slow is inappropriate....
---------- ADS -----------
 
NovaBoy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:36 pm
Location: down east

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by NovaBoy »

Better pics on CBC.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5130624

They were T-boned. Whoever was in the left seat got a pretty good bang.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Victory »

Will they do cannabis testing on the driver for an accident like this? I don't think it's related to the crash but I'm just curious if they are cracking down on it below the wing as much as they do above it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1298
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by lownslow »

Victory wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 5:00 am Will they do cannabis testing on the driver for an accident like this?
If the guy was high on dope this wouldn’t have happened. He’d have been too busy holding short of arriving traffic on the island.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Inverted2
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2348
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Inverted2 »

I’m sure with any aviation related accident they would have done alcohol and drug testing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Victory »

Inverted2 wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 6:28 am I’m sure with any aviation related accident they would have done alcohol and drug testing.
So he's basically assured a DUI too if he's used any legal cannabis within the last 30 days or so since there is no way to show current levels of intoxication.
---------- ADS -----------
 
AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by AuxBatOn »

There is a minimum level of THC to prove impairment under Cannabis.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Going for the deck at corner
Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Victory »

THC blood level itself can not directly document the intensity of impairment of a driver. This has been shown time and again by science. It will be interesting when somebody with the means to fight a law like that takes it to court.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1796
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Heliian »

Speeding is another issue with ground support equipment, does anyone know the speed limit for that area?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Diadem »

Victory wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 5:00 am ...I'm just curious if they are cracking down on it below the wing as much as they do above it.
I don't think too many people sit above the wing on a Dash.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FL410
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:12 pm

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by FL410 »

Diadem wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 12:08 pm
Victory wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 5:00 am ...I'm just curious if they are cracking down on it below the wing as much as they do above it.
I don't think too many people sit above the wing on a Dash.
Below the wing usually refers to ground crews, with above the wing being anyone onboard.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Diadem »

FL410 wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 7:21 pm
Diadem wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 12:08 pm
Victory wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 5:00 am ...I'm just curious if they are cracking down on it below the wing as much as they do above it.
I don't think too many people sit above the wing on a Dash.
Below the wing usually refers to ground crews, with above the wing being anyone onboard.
Whoosh
---------- ADS -----------
 
Eric Janson
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1020
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Eric Janson »

altiplano wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 2:18 am
Victory wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm No airline I have worked at has said it is the Captain's right to taxi at any speed they want.
appropriate taxi speed relevant conditions and other factors
They certainly don't tell you what taxi speed to use though. It's your responsibility to use your judgement.

Have you never done a slow taxi because stoc said your crew/gate wasn't available? Or a complicated taxi route? Or you got a rwy change after pushback and the FO is inputting the new performance/sid into the box? Or you're on a ramp?

Saying a crew should be shot or given a time out on the deice pad for taxing slow is inappropriate....
Interesting - my company has clear limits for taxi speed(s) as part of the SOP. It is also part of the FOQA monitoring.

Taking a corner too fast can put a huge strain on the tires due to the sideloads involved. Can shorten tire life significantly - $$$$!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
FICU
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:37 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by FICU »

Victory wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm No airline I have worked at has said it is the Captain's right to taxi at any speed they want.
Big Brother reports over 30 knots and 15 knots in a turn. Captain's call.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
youhavecontrol
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by youhavecontrol »

Here's the audio from the incident and a few pics of the damage. Sounds like the fueler was in a rush to move. Poor pilot was pretty rattled.. he called Montreal Ground by mistake after getting hit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jhjViakM60
---------- ADS -----------
 
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
User avatar
Canoehead
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:08 pm
Location: YEE 220 @ 4

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by Canoehead »

Eric Janson wrote: Sun May 12, 2019 7:05 am
Interesting - my company has clear limits for taxi speed(s) as part of the SOP. It is also part of the FOQA monitoring.

Taking a corner too fast can put a huge strain on the tires due to the sideloads involved. Can shorten tire life significantly - $$$$!
Jazz also has taxi limits published on all types. Monitored on the Q400 and CRJ-900, there may be certain DH8 and CRJ-200 tails monitored as well.

If the #1 engine wasn't in Start/Fx, I bet the outcome would have been different.
---------- ADS -----------
 
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3672
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by co-joe »

altiplano wrote: Sat May 11, 2019 2:18 am
Victory wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm No airline I have worked at has said it is the Captain's right to taxi at any speed they want.
appropriate taxi speed relevant conditions and other factors
They certainly don't tell you what taxi speed to use though. It's your responsibility to use your judgement.

...
Really? No guidance? My employer says 25 kts max taxi speed and watches with flight data monitoring for compliance. I'm surprised that's not in your sop's.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Jazz Dash 8 and Menzies Fuel Truck Collide in YYZ

Post by altiplano »

Yeah they totally nail you if you go 7 knots... :roll:

How is your SOP worded?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”