Hiring outlook

[JBI]

I can count on two hands the # of pilots who have ever left AC for WJ.

That's well done! Counting using both hands is a very good skill and I hope you'll soon progress to being able to simply count in your head without having to use your hands! I perhaps wouldn't be bragging about it on the internet, but you know, kids these days...

(sorry, I usually try to avoid ad hominem comments, but that one was too easy!)

As for the actual topic of the post, the plan is an Encore GS near the end of April. There have also been a few incidents of folks applying for Encore, but then getting asked if they'd be interested in mainline. So while things are not moving as quickly as last year, they are moving.

[Yieldermatik]

I can count on two hands the # of pilots who have ever left AC for WJ.

That's well done! Counting using both hands is a very good skill and I hope you'll soon progress to being able to simply count in your head without having to use your hands! I perhaps wouldn't be bragging about it on the internet, but you know, kids these days...

(sorry, I usually try to avoid ad hominem comments, but that one was too easy!)

As for the actual topic of the post, the plan is an Encore GS near the end of April. There have also been a few incidents of folks applying for Encore, but then getting asked if they'd be interested in mainline. So while things are not moving as quickly as last year, they are moving.

Some people have said that a gs would indeed happen around april/may. Have these calls gone out though to the succesfull candidates? If not then roughly when should they be going out? Thanks.

[tps8903]

How do you figure 5 years to flow to mainline? 600 pilots at Encore. That would involve Encore flowing 120 a year. At the current 50% flow that means WJ would have to hire 240 pilots a year for the next 5 years.
I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, but I don't think that type of growth is on the horizon.

Hiring is starting again in April. I asked management for a friend who is waiting.

Current flow as of last week is 3 years and 1 month.

I have been keeping tabs on attrition at Encore by crossing names of the list at Encore as the lists are updated and comparing it with flow. As it stands the list moves 15 names a month between flow to Encore, Swoop, other airlines and differing bids. Granted any and all of those deferred folks could Flow at any point slowing the list down.

Using the ACTUAL numbers and not taking into account growth, the current flow time for a new hire will be approximately 2 years and 11 months by time their number is called for mainline. Its a one year wait for Swoop (internal rule) if you should want to work there. In reality the Encore list will be exhausted for Swoop flow by the next bid which means you can go as soon as the company lets you.

Economies change however, but in the last year those are the numbers.

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

[Yieldermatik]

Hiring is starting again in April. I asked management for a friend who is waiting.

Current flow as of last week is 3 years and 1 month.

I have been keeping tabs on attrition at Encore by crossing names of the list at Encore as the lists are updated and comparing it with flow. As it stands the list moves 15 names a month between flow to Encore, Swoop, other airlines and differing bids. Granted any and all of those deferred folks could Flow at any point slowing the list down.

Using the ACTUAL numbers and not taking into account growth, the current flow time for a new hire will be approximately 2 years and 11 months by time their number is called for mainline. Its a one year wait for Swoop (internal rule) if you should want to work there. In reality the Encore list will be exhausted for Swoop flow by the next bid which means you can go as soon as the company lets you.

Economies change however, but in the last year those are the numbers.

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

“A lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.” Is this cause of the regional lifestyle? I keep hearing encore is not a career airline unlike Jazz. Is this cause the benefits are not as good as mainline or what? Curious to get the feedback. Thanks.

[tps8903]

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

“A lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.” Is this cause of the regional lifestyle? I keep hearing encore is not a career airline unlike Jazz. Is this cause the benefits are not as good as mainline or what? Curious to get the feedback. Thanks.

Some possibly don't want to take a pay cut. Some earn pretty good money in the training department and are happy with their lifestyle where they live. Some might be waiting for something better to come along, ie have iron in the fire at other carriers. Some were waiting to see how the contract at Mainline panned out. Just some of the reasons I've heard. Each to their own. I'm sure others have different reasons. There are people here are genuinely content with the money they earn and the way their life is set up. Each to their own.

[Yieldermatik]

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

“A lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.” Is this cause of the regional lifestyle? I keep hearing encore is not a career airline unlike Jazz. Is this cause the benefits are not as good as mainline or what? Curious to get the feedback. Thanks.

Some possibly don't want to take a pay cut. Some earn pretty good money in the training department and are happy with their lifestyle where they live. Some might be waiting for something better to come along, ie have iron in the fire at other carriers. Some were waiting to see how the contract at Mainline panned out. Just some of the reasons I've heard. Each to their own. I'm sure others have different reasons. There are people here are genuinely content with the money they earn and the way their life is set up. Each to their own.

Thanks

[doiwannabeapilot]

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

“A lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.” Is this cause of the regional lifestyle? I keep hearing encore is not a career airline unlike Jazz. Is this cause the benefits are not as good as mainline or what? Curious to get the feedback. Thanks.

18 days per month, 12 hour duty days, grooming......regional lifestyle is the best ! who would want to flow !

[tbayav8er]

18 days/month? Granted, I have had months where I worked 18 days, this doesn't seem to be the norm anymore (at least out of YYC base for FO's). According to our scheduling statistics, the most days scheduled for an FO in April was 16 days (in YYC). I'm scheduled for 16 days in April myself...Also, if you're a Captain in the training department and you live at your base city, you can be home most nights, make some extra money etc. It's also been a while since I've had a 12 hr day. Maybe I'm just lucky with my schedule. The vast majority of my days are about 8-9 hrs duty....I've noticed the pairings becoming more efficient compared to when I first started about a year and a half ago. Is it perfect? No....But it seems to be getting a little better. Just my 2 cents.

[sstaurus]

The FOs might be on easy-street right now, but the CAs are ridden hard and put away wet.

And "a lot defer flow" is a hell of a stretch. A few involved in training at the most.

Also:

There have also been a few incidents of folks applying for Encore, but then getting asked if they'd be interested in mainline.

If that's actually happening, this bizarro world is too much for me

[Citationdriver]

Any word on Encore hiring or interview calls from time when résumé submitted? Are they interviewing? Is there ground schools scheduled? I know know they are interviewing for mainline but strictly YYZ base and Swoop.

[Yieldermatik]

Any word on Encore hiring or interview calls from time when résumé submitted? Are they interviewing? Is there ground schools scheduled? I know know they are interviewing for mainline but strictly YYZ base and Swoop.

Some people have said they’ve gotten calls for interviews days after applying. They are actively interviewing as a friend of mine just got flown to Calgary a few days ago. They told him they have ground schools in May and June and that both bases are open, Calgary and Toronto. I wonder what sort of changes will come about with the new agreement.

[DaveP]

Hi guys!
Courses are ongoing and simulator availability is a bottle neck for us. With that - interviews are ongoing and we are filling the courses monthly.

Very happy for the folks at Encore with the new agreement! Today was the first road show!

Awesome news in there with regards to flow (60%)
And some other nuggets by way of no pay cut when you flow to WestJet!

Very cool.
Congratulations! Over to the pilot group now - and see how the vote goes!
Happy for you guys.
Dave

[InSanes]

Hi guys!
Courses are ongoing and simulator availability is a bottle neck for us. With that - interviews are ongoing and we are filling the courses monthly.

Very happy for the folks at Encore with the new agreement! Today was the first road show!

Awesome news in there with regards to flow (60%)
And some other nuggets by way of no pay cut when you flow to WestJet!

Very cool.
Congratulations! Over to the pilot group now - and see how the vote goes!
Happy for you guys.
Dave

flow minimum at 50%, and the company has been flowing the minimum.
no one list anymore.

[YYZGDP]

Hiring outlook = go look somewhere else guys. There will be plenty of availability at Encore, but the one list is gone, and so is the morale.
May as well be a separate company. Oh wait.. it always was.

[Alkoa]

Do yourself a favour, don't waste your time at Encore. You have better chance to be hired at AC or even WJ mainline if you fly for AC express. If you are flying 703, just stay where you are a bit longer, apply WJ mainline at 1500 hours and skip the whole Encore mess. There is absolutely no reason to come at Encore as there is no flow, no one list, low wages and no future. They are losing pilots and experience fast, sadly!

[plausiblyannonymous]

Do yourself a favour, don't waste your time at Encore. You have better chance to be hired at AC or even WJ mainline if you fly for AC express. If you are flying 703, just stay where you are a bit longer, apply WJ mainline at 1500 hours and skip the whole Encore mess. There is absolutely no reason to come at Encore as there is no flow, no one list, low wages and no future. They are losing pilots and experience fast, sadly!

On the other hand, Encore is a company where you can spend several years, get paid $40,000 base salary, fly relatively new airplanes with people who have good personalities, and have a guaranteed job at WestJet mainline.

Even with the one list being out the window, we're still better off here than at Jazz. At Jazz you have a guaranteed interview, but an interview means nothing. At Jazz, you don't find out where you're based until your second day of training. At Jazz the newest guy gets all of the shit.

At Encore, as a first year FO, I am bidding for one day pairings and getting them. I got both of my desired vacation bids, Christmas and New years. I am happy here and, even with the shit going on, I am still in a significantly better place than I was last year.

If in five or ten years I can't flow to mainline, I'll have more than enough experience for AC to hire me on no problem.

[flyinhigh]

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest posts here. Stay at Encore, work 18 days a month for low pay and get extended all the time to hopefully flow to the bottom of the list in 6 years and start over.

Or go to jazz where they have a better contract and pay for a career. Yes you interview at AC mainline however 90% of interviewees get to go.

Better idea, go to Encore and get out ASAP.

On the other hand, Encore is a company where you can spend several years, get paid $40,000 base salary, fly relatively new airplanes with people who have good personalities, and have a guaranteed job at WestJet mainline.

Even with the one list being out the window, we're still better off here than at Jazz. At Jazz you have a guaranteed interview, but an interview means nothing. At Jazz, you don't find out where you're based until your second day of training. At Jazz the newest guy gets all of the shit.

At Encore, as a first year FO, I am bidding for one day pairings and getting them. I got both of my desired vacation bids, Christmas and New years. I am happy here and, even with the shit going on, I am still in a significantly better place than I was last year.

If in five or ten years I can't flow to mainline, I'll have more than enough experience for AC to hire me on no problem.

[plausiblyannonymous]

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest posts here. Stay at Encore, work 18 days a month for low pay and get extended all the time to hopefully flow to the bottom of the list in 6 years and start over.

Or go to jazz where they have a better contract and pay for a career. Yes you interview at AC mainline however 90% of interviewees get to go.

Better idea, go to Encore and get out ASAP.

On the other hand, Encore is a company where you can spend several years, get paid $40,000 base salary, fly relatively new airplanes with people who have good personalities, and have a guaranteed job at WestJet mainline.

Even with the one list being out the window, we're still better off here than at Jazz. At Jazz you have a guaranteed interview, but an interview means nothing. At Jazz, you don't find out where you're based until your second day of training. At Jazz the newest guy gets all of the shit.

At Encore, as a first year FO, I am bidding for one day pairings and getting them. I got both of my desired vacation bids, Christmas and New years. I am happy here and, even with the shit going on, I am still in a significantly better place than I was last year.

If in five or ten years I can't flow to mainline, I'll have more than enough experience for AC to hire me on no problem.

Work 18 days a month?

I have 18 days off this month with no vacation.

[tbayav8er]

Yeah 40k/year to fly a Q400 with no seniority with mainline, and no flow. Sweet.

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest posts here. Stay at Encore, work 18 days a month for low pay and get extended all the time to hopefully flow to the bottom of the list in 6 years and start over.

Or go to jazz where they have a better contract and pay for a career. Yes you interview at AC mainline however 90% of interviewees get to go.

Better idea, go to Encore and get out ASAP.

On the other hand, Encore is a company where you can spend several years, get paid $40,000 base salary, fly relatively new airplanes with people who have good personalities, and have a guaranteed job at WestJet mainline.

Even with the one list being out the window, we're still better off here than at Jazz. At Jazz you have a guaranteed interview, but an interview means nothing. At Jazz, you don't find out where you're based until your second day of training. At Jazz the newest guy gets all of the shit.

At Encore, as a first year FO, I am bidding for one day pairings and getting them. I got both of my desired vacation bids, Christmas and New years. I am happy here and, even with the shit going on, I am still in a significantly better place than I was last year.

If in five or ten years I can't flow to mainline, I'll have more than enough experience for AC to hire me on no problem.

Work 18 days a month?

I have 18 days off this month with no vacation.

[doiwannabeapilot]

What's the flow speed now ?
Still 3 years and 1 month for a brand new FO ?

Hiring is starting again in April. I asked management for a friend who is waiting.

Current flow as of last week is 3 years and 1 month.

I have been keeping tabs on attrition at Encore by crossing names of the list at Encore as the lists are updated and comparing it with flow. As it stands the list moves 15 names a month between flow to Encore, Swoop, other airlines and differing bids. Granted any and all of those deferred folks could Flow at any point slowing the list down.

Using the ACTUAL numbers and not taking into account growth, the current flow time for a new hire will be approximately 2 years and 11 months by time their number is called for mainline. Its a one year wait for Swoop (internal rule) if you should want to work there. In reality the Encore list will be exhausted for Swoop flow by the next bid which means you can go as soon as the company lets you.

Economies change however, but in the last year those are the numbers.

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

[skyhighh]

What's the flow speed now ?
Still 3 years and 1 month for a brand new FO ?

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

Nobody knows. For the 2nd time in 3 years WestJet stopped the flow. Any HR or manager telling you anything about flow time at Encore is BSing you. Plus with Onex buying the entire group, who knows what will happen to Encore.

[LennyLeonard]

What's the flow speed now ?
Still 3 years and 1 month for a brand new FO ?

I think the 5+ years flow is more realistic. 80 pilots flowed in 2017. I believe it was less in 2018. It will likely be the same or less in 2019.
I would go with 70 pilots per year.....equals well over 5 years.
As the previous poster said you should thank your lucky stars to be rhs in a Q400 with 1000 hours. And still thankful to flow in the 5-8 years.

Your math is wanting.

Flow Speed = Flow + Deferrals + Resignations.

The second two make up for more that just Flow.

If it was just Flow then yeah, it would take forever. But people leave Encore, and believe it or not a lot of people choose to stay when they can flow.

Last i heard 4 years.

[LicensedToThrill]

The majority of FO's I have talked to have said the lifestyle is relaxed. They are getting for the most part the schedule they want.

[flyinhigh]

The last time the flow was three years was about 2 years ago. Simple math now makes it easy.

550 pilots / 75 (this is about what flows per year) flow per year = 7 years.

Subtract the resignations and the few that flow than that number might come down to about 5, maybe 6 years.

What's the flow speed now ?
Still 3 years and 1 month for a brand new FO ?

You must be an FO or the only exception. I have many friends at Encore and not one of them has 18 days off a month.

Every Capt I know there is working their bag off in days and getting extended all the time. There are FO's I know who are also NOT taking the upgrade as they see how hard their counterparts are working and say it's not worth it. They're riding it out till AC, AT, SG come calling.

Work 18 days a month?

I have 18 days off this month with no vacation.

[Gear Jerker]

The last time the flow was three years was about 2 years ago. Simple math now makes it easy.

550 pilots / 75 (this is about what flows per year) flow per year = 7 years.

Subtract the resignations and the few that flow than that number might come down to about 5, maybe 6 years.

What's the flow speed now ?
Still 3 years and 1 month for a brand new FO ?

You must be an FO or the only exception. I have many friends at Encore and not one of them has 18 days off a month.

Every Capt I know there is working their bag off in days and getting extended all the time. There are FO's I know who are also NOT taking the upgrade as they see how hard their counterparts are working and say it's not worth it. They're riding it out till AC, AT, SG come calling.

Work 18 days a month?

I have 18 days off this month with no vacation.

G'day

Just to add some nuance and facts:

Due to a shortage of Captains in YYZ, some scheduling changes were made. To say that every captain works 18 days a month and gets extended and cold called on their days off, is not accurate as a blanket statement.

Just looking at latest scheduling statistics, Captains averaged 13 days off for November, YYC FO's averaged 13 days off, YYZ FO's averaged 17 days off.

My first year as an FO, my T4 was over 60k.

It is true that guys were deferring upgrades this summer. That added to the shortage, seems to have stabilized again.

I do get cold called once or twice a month on days off. I don't answer the phone. Nobody calls again, I have no obligation to answer. I can always call them ahead of time and tell them not to call me.

I have been extended multiple times. The vast majority of pairings I do not get extended.

Speaking with friends of mine at Jazz, various bases various equipment various positions; its the same sh@@ different pile.

Yes, the one list is a mess right now. It's being worked on.

Generally unless you're an entrepreneur or heir to a fortune or some special case... everybody has a job. There are pros and cons, but this is by far the best job I've had. It was worse when I started in 2016. It's gotten a lot better. Don't believe what everything you read on avcanada, folks.

Cheers