AC offer AT $13 per share

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KAG
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AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by KAG » Thu May 16, 2019 5:17 am

Congrats AT pilots and AC, this is a smart move.
Let the game of consolidating airlines begin 😁
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Mône
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Mône » Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am

If it's not DOH, it's a sad day for aviation.
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altiplano
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by altiplano » Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am

Congrats AT pilots indeed... not so much for AC pilots...
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by DH8Pilot » Thu May 16, 2019 5:56 am

Crazy week for Canadian aviation :rolleyes:
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Last edited by DH8Pilot on Thu May 16, 2019 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bearitus
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by bearitus » Thu May 16, 2019 6:00 am

What would this mean for express hiring to AC?
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Jean-Pierre » Thu May 16, 2019 6:02 am

Probably nothing since an equal number of new aircraft and new pilot are being brought onboard. They are still short of many hundred of pilot.
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altiplano
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by altiplano » Thu May 16, 2019 6:14 am

This won't bring much growth IMO. In the end it will settle to about a status quo or perhaps slightly more in terms of amount of aircraft/pilots required.
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DanWEC
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by DanWEC » Thu May 16, 2019 6:21 am

AC needed the capacity as well from the missing Max's and TS had been doing flying for them. I wonder if that, and TS's incoming A321 NeoLR's has anything to do with this.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper » Thu May 16, 2019 6:22 am

It will be interesting to see if they cancel their MAX orders.
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Victory
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Victory » Thu May 16, 2019 6:34 am

People might complain about a pilot merge but the alternative is if they keep Transat separate and have it be like Rouge 2.0 but without the ACPA. Then have those two pilot groups compete against each other.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by pianokeys » Thu May 16, 2019 7:14 am

Victory wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:34 am
People might complain about a pilot merge but the alternative is if they keep Transat separate and have it be like Rouge 2.0 but without the ACPA. Then have those two pilot groups compete against each other.
Rouge and TS merge and abandon the B list scale a create a C list scale.
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Fanblade
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Fanblade » Thu May 16, 2019 7:48 am

How much do you want to bet a counter from Onex/WJ?

If this plays out like last time the winner will pay over $20/share over a course of a multitude of tit for tat offers.
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landshark
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by landshark » Thu May 16, 2019 8:20 am

It would have to be a pretty big counter offer - 50M if AT backs out and 40M if AC backs out.
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altiplano
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by altiplano » Thu May 16, 2019 8:30 am

landshark wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:20 am
It would have to be a pretty big counter offer - 50M if AT backs out and 40M if AC backs out.
I heard 15 million and 40 million.
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landshark
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by landshark » Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 am

altiplano wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:30 am
landshark wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:20 am
It would have to be a pretty big counter offer - 50M if AT backs out and 40M if AC backs out.
I heard 15 million and 40 million.
You heard right, I was mistaken. It is 15M
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by av8ts » Thu May 16, 2019 12:04 pm

altiplano wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am
Congrats AT pilots indeed... not so much for AC pilots...
Two possibilities I see are (1) AC operates them separately in which case they will expand TS. Win for TS pilots. (2) If AC merges them it will be a big loss for TS pilots, no way ACPA with give them DOH.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by rudder » Thu May 16, 2019 12:30 pm

av8ts wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:04 pm

Two possibilities I see are (1) AC operates them separately in which case they will expand TS. Win for TS pilots. (2) If AC merges them it will be a big loss for TS pilots, no way ACPA with give them DOH.
:oops:

In what world would ACPA allow AC to own another airline operating 330/321/737 and not merge pilot seniority lists?

As for DOH - I am guessing that it would be either negotiated seniority integration with binding arbitration associated or a trip to the CIRB.

Personally, I would try to avoid having the CIRB determine the result.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Duke Point » Thu May 16, 2019 2:00 pm

Exactly….there is no world where ACPA would let that happen. It would cause whipsawing on a colossal scale. To hear others discuss it is nothing short of lunacy.

With 737 Capt. positions going as junior as 3050+ at AC, date of hire would be very reasonable.

Putting up fences for a specified period with pay and base protection as a minimum for say three years or so, would prevent anyone from Transat from experiencing hardship.

There is still a lot of hiring to do, so anyone "inconvenienced" would only be so for a short while.

We need to remember that the pilots at Transat DID NOT ask for this, merging will be forced.

We don't need haters or bad blood.

DP.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TSAM » Thu May 16, 2019 2:16 pm

Nice to see some with common sense. Yes it may suck for all at first, but long term we all benefit, the impact being minimal to most. The ACPA contract can be opened for meaningful gains for AC pilots. More tails for AC (just with that, again most will not be affected) and AC as a whole will make more $ with the purchase, which means more in the employees pockets. Mgmt I'm sure is aware of happy/content employees are productive to their bottom line.
Let us not forget we are brothers and sisters who share a common love for aviation. Pilot unity is growing as we see amongst those joining ALPA ranks and with flow agreements. We all win when we work together, no one wants to share a divided, hateful flightdeck.
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Duke Point
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Duke Point » Thu May 16, 2019 2:40 pm

Pilots can get pretty venomous.

If we don't see the "light" on our own, and integrate fairly, the CIRB will surely do it for us.

I will say again that Air Transat didn't ask for this, so it shouldn't be personal.

DP.
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John1234
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by John1234 » Thu May 16, 2019 2:46 pm

It would be minimal for everybody hired at AC pre 2016. Everybody after will have 500 people slide ahead. Many who had to bite the bullet and go make penny’s at express to get to ac. So they should just slide in? The people who quit express to go to transat come out ahead, the ones who left transat for Ac get the bottom of the barrel. Of course senior guys don’t care, typical fashion of aviation the ones at the bottom just get to keep digging a deeper hole. Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
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danield
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by danield » Thu May 16, 2019 3:39 pm

John1234 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:46 pm
It would be minimal for everybody hired at AC pre 2016. Everybody after will have 500 people slide ahead. Many who had to bite the bullet and go make penny’s at express to get to ac. So they should just slide in? The people who quit express to go to transat come out ahead, the ones who left transat for Ac get the bottom of the barrel. Of course senior guys don’t care, typical fashion of aviation the ones at the bottom just get to keep digging a deeper hole. Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
Amen
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Mrbobmarly111
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Mrbobmarly111 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:55 pm

It will be BOTL. When Canadian merged with AC years ago they went BOTL. It sucks but ACPA has a obligation to its pilots. Research previous AC mergers of you dont believe me.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper » Thu May 16, 2019 4:15 pm

It will be a formula not DOH. How much that formula favors AC pilots depends on how well Transat was doing when they got bought out. Does anyone know?

I'm actually kind of surprised Transat pilots want DOH. My image of the company is widebody Captains with less than 10 years in. Maybe I'm way off. But if you get DOH they'd be back to F/O or NB Captain if they are lucky.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Curiousflyer » Thu May 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Full disclosure, I’m a AC new hire as of late 2018.
Over the last 3 years AC has attracted the most experienced new hire pilots out of any Canadian airline. PIT course are full of expats, regionals, and every other Canadian Airline, WestJet and Air Transat included. It simply wouldn’t be appropriate to do a DOH merger list. That being said, personally I also wouldn’t be in favour of a BOTL merger either as this has been forced on Air Transat pilots, it’s not their choice, as such it wouldn’t be fair to get thrown to the bottom of the list.
What other options are there?
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