Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

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twa22
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Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 »

Hello all

I have a general question regarding cruise relief time. I couldn't find much info, other then this link regarding the issuance of a higher license

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... p-1802.htm

The reason I ask is because Cathay Pacific is one of the only airlines in the world I know of that operates with second officers, which from what i've gathered is a cruise relief pilot that isn't actually type rated. SO's can only log P2X time, so I was wondering how that is viewed in Canada? Everything i've read thus far from others is that P2X time is completely useless, but I still don't quite understand why. Does it not even count under total time in Canada? Do airlines not give credit to this P2X time here?

I am waiting for my interview dates for a direct entry SO position with Cathay and I just wanted to gather some more info regarding P2X time.
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confusedalot
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by confusedalot »

Cathay is not the only airline that uses second officers.

Your very own country uses the very same concept via air Canada.

The AC types are however obligated by the rules to get a type rating, but that rating is limited to a "relief pilot", stamped on your licence as RP. Can't do much with that either in Canada or hong Kong.

HOWEVER, you will be in the Cathay system. Which means that you have automatic access to FO and eventually Captain

Play the game. Takes some time, but you will get there.
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twa22
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 »

confusedalot wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 9:23 pm Cathay is not the only airline that uses second officers.

Your very own country uses the very same concept via air Canada.

The AC types are however obligated by the rules to get a type rating, but that rating is limited to a "relief pilot", stamped on your licence as RP. Can't do much with that either in Canada or hong Kong.

HOWEVER, you will be in the Cathay system. Which means that you have automatic access to FO and eventually Captain

Play the game. Takes some time, but you will get there.
I thought AC relief pilots are fully type rated FOs who only act as RPs... So one who decides to bid for an RP spot at AC actually gets a type rating, works as an RP but is qualified as full fledged FO, versus at Cathay, an SO cannot act as an FO due to the relief rating only. That's how I've been lead to understand... In either case it doesn't really matter, was just curious about how the world views this P2X time, IF one were to not ever fly as an FO at Cathay for whatever reason
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Snowgoose
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Snowgoose »

^ What he said. Recurrent sims are RP only (eval above 10,000") though, initial one is full type rating at AC. Log the hours, not the take-off and landings.
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Sharklasers »

Snowgoose wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 4:56 am ^ What he said. Recurrent sims are RP only (eval above 10,000") though, initial one is full type rating at AC. Log the hours, not the take-off and landings.
Your info is out of date. Starting ~2 years ago AC stopped give full type ratings for RP positions. They now get a 'short course' on the 777 or 787.
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jpilot77
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by jpilot77 »

Nope your info is out of date Sharklasers AC did go the short course route for about a year in 2016-17 but went back to the full course when Murray became VP of flight ops.
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altiplano
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by altiplano »

Who's "Murray"?

Is he like your neighbour or something? Does he come over with "Calin" for bbq and beer on the weekend?

Mr. Strom is senior management, not our friend on a first name basis... unless he's your neighbour or something from the past, but even then when related to work he's not doing us any favours leading me to consider him as my friend... Things he is fixing, training, shortage, etc. are for the corporation, not us.

But maybe that's just me...
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by jpilot77 »

I couldn’t remember if Strom had 1 or 2 Ms in his last name so I went with just Murray...
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Sharklasers »

jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:55 am Nope your info is out of date Sharklasers AC did go the short course route for about a year in 2016-17 but went back to the full course when Murray became VP of flight ops.
Apologies then,
I obviously haven't been keeping abreast of what's happening on the widebody side.
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Snowgoose »

altiplano wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 12:16 pm Who's "Murray"?

Is he like your neighbour or something? Does he come over with "Calin" for bbq and beer on the weekend?

Mr. Strom is senior management, not our friend on a first name basis... unless he's your neighbour or something from the past, but even then when related to work he's not doing us any favours leading me to consider him as my friend... Things he is fixing, training, shortage, etc. are for the corporation, not us.

But maybe that's just me...
Yep, it's just you.
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altiplano
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by altiplano »

Lol... If it makes you feel good...

Go culture change!?
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Shinyjetsyndrome »

@twa22 off topic, but how long have you been waiting for an interview date at CX? I’m sitting at a month and a half after submitting all the documents they wanted in the initial invitation. I followed up by email to see if maybe they were still waiting for something, but that isn’t the case. :?
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twa22
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 »

Shinyjetsyndrome wrote: Sun May 12, 2019 4:36 pm @twa22 off topic, but how long have you been waiting for an interview date at CX? I’m sitting at a month and a half after submitting all the documents they wanted in the initial invitation. I followed up by email to see if maybe they were still waiting for something, but that isn’t the case. :?
No worries. I'm in the exact same boat, been waiting for a month and a half since I got confirmation I will be invited to an interview... guess they're really backed up
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by leftoftrack »

I am also backed uo
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Speedalive »

Ok good to know. Glad it's not just me!
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Skykiwi
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Skykiwi »

They are not backed up - just figuring out how low to set the bar.

The P2X rating at Cathay allows you to sit at the controls above 20,000ft. 80% of the time you are PM and only making radio calls, keeping the log etc. (Not that twirling the heading bug or pushing the alt select button is any bigger of a thrill). The time is only logable while you are in the seat (this is generally less than half the flight - last week on the flight to YVR the SO managed to get a whole 20 mins). My understanding is that P2X time does not translate to anything meaningful back in the real world. You do get lots of sim time though - that is a bonus.

Those thinking of joining CX with hopes and dreams - do you homework. What you read on the forums (PPrune etc) is a good indication of the atmosphere at CX. Not a lot of happy campers. The new Conditions of Service are deplorable.
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 »

Skykiwi wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:18 pm They are not backed up - just figuring out how low to set the bar.

The P2X rating at Cathay allows you to sit at the controls above 20,000ft. 80% of the time you are PM and only making radio calls, keeping the log etc. (Not that twirling the heading bug or pushing the alt select button is any bigger of a thrill). The time is only logable while you are in the seat (this is generally less than half the flight - last week on the flight to YVR the SO managed to get a whole 20 mins). My understanding is that P2X time does not translate to anything meaningful back in the real world. You do get lots of sim time though - that is a bonus.

Those thinking of joining CX with hopes and dreams - do you homework. What you read on the forums (PPrune etc) is a good indication of the atmosphere at CX. Not a lot of happy campers. The new Conditions of Service are deplorable.
I have read all the threads and posts there are to read about CX on pprune and it's all doom and gloom... however I have also spoken to many others outside of the forums, current and former CX pilots who weren't as negative about the company, so personally, i'm going to remain neutral at this point, however; I do believe that for a ~250 hour who is in his/her early to mid 20's, CX can be a good opportunity, even if it's around a 5 year upgrade time to JFO, where then hours will count for something if P2X really means absolutely nothing to Canadian carries, or the rest of the world.

I know there's more to it then what I just wrote above and so many other factors to consider, but I like to at least try and look at the positive side of things...
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Skykiwi »

Good luck with the optimism. It won't take long to change that.
Since you have done the research, you have no excuse once you join to complain about your lot - remember that. Read COS18 carefully.

(Chatting with former CX pilots will not give you any indication of what it is like right now - the glory days are long gone).
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 »

Skykiwi wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 11:06 am Good luck with the optimism. It won't take long to change that.
Since you have done the research, you have no excuse once you join to complain about your lot - remember that. Read COS18 carefully.

(Chatting with former CX pilots will not give you any indication of what it is like right now - the glory days are long gone).
I have looked over cos18 and to me it doesn't look that bad but I have nothing to compare it too... I would need the old ones for reference before I could make a decision on how bad the latest contract is.

Look without optimism, I might aswell say every airline is doom and gloom as it's pretty much corporate greed anywhere you go, I have heard enough complaints about Canadian carriers aswell, so...
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by jpilot77 »

I’d listen to what Skykiwi is saying about CX. Just look at the amount of guys leaving CX for AC recently taking a huge pay cut some after 10 years. Also guys going to CX now better be prepared to live in Hong Kong for the rest of your career. If you have 250 hours go have fun flying an aircraft. You’ll have plenty of time to be sitting at 370 reading the paper drinking your coffee.
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