AC offer AT $13 per share

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John1234
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by John1234 »

It would be minimal for everybody hired at AC pre 2016. Everybody after will have 500 people slide ahead. Many who had to bite the bullet and go make penny’s at express to get to ac. So they should just slide in? The people who quit express to go to transat come out ahead, the ones who left transat for Ac get the bottom of the barrel. Of course senior guys don’t care, typical fashion of aviation the ones at the bottom just get to keep digging a deeper hole. Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
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danield
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by danield »

John1234 wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 2:46 pm It would be minimal for everybody hired at AC pre 2016. Everybody after will have 500 people slide ahead. Many who had to bite the bullet and go make penny’s at express to get to ac. So they should just slide in? The people who quit express to go to transat come out ahead, the ones who left transat for Ac get the bottom of the barrel. Of course senior guys don’t care, typical fashion of aviation the ones at the bottom just get to keep digging a deeper hole. Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
Amen
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Mrbobmarly111
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Mrbobmarly111 »

It will be BOTL. When Canadian merged with AC years ago they went BOTL. It sucks but ACPA has a obligation to its pilots. Research previous AC mergers of you dont believe me.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

It will be a formula not DOH. How much that formula favors AC pilots depends on how well Transat was doing when they got bought out. Does anyone know?

I'm actually kind of surprised Transat pilots want DOH. My image of the company is widebody Captains with less than 10 years in. Maybe I'm way off. But if you get DOH they'd be back to F/O or NB Captain if they are lucky.
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Curiousflyer
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Curiousflyer »

Full disclosure, I’m a AC new hire as of late 2018.
Over the last 3 years AC has attracted the most experienced new hire pilots out of any Canadian airline. PIT course are full of expats, regionals, and every other Canadian Airline, WestJet and Air Transat included. It simply wouldn’t be appropriate to do a DOH merger list. That being said, personally I also wouldn’t be in favour of a BOTL merger either as this has been forced on Air Transat pilots, it’s not their choice, as such it wouldn’t be fair to get thrown to the bottom of the list.
What other options are there?
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infiniteregulus
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by infiniteregulus »

It wasn't AT pilot's choice but it also wasn't AC pilot's choice either. If the AT guys get DOH, that makes YOU BOTL haha. Someone will be BOTL :lol:
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digits_
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by digits_ »

Not sure what the problem would be with DOH. They are bringing their own planes with them are they not? How would DOH affect any AC pilot badly? I honestly don't see the problem...
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altiplano
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by altiplano »

digits_ wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:04 pm Not sure what the problem would be with DOH. They are bringing their own planes with them are they not? How would DOH affect any AC pilot badly? I honestly don't see the problem...
Many of the planes will never turn a wheel after the merger. 310s, 737s, possibly the 330-200s... gone.

Senior Transat guys, I see guys on that list hired 88, 89, 90... they should still hold 330CA and they will get a huge raise. But junior 330CAs, I understand some with less than 10 years seniority... no way they should get slotted into the seniority bracket to hold the 330 near the top of a merged list and stay on "their plane" it's not "their plane" - it's Calin Rovinescu's now... but even with seniority to hold 320CAs at AC for example, they will make a higher rate than they did at AT, so still a pay raise, but not the lottery.

I understand 320/330 dual typed at Transat anyway... we don't do that at AC.

This isn't anyone's fault, and everyone except the most senior from both companies will take something of a hit... I'm not happy about it, but no one asked me, and I won't hold it against my future coworkers from AT, but everyone has to be reasonable.

Some AT guys may be disappointed to lose some relative placement on the new list, but they are still the big winners here IMO, all will see a pay raise, more certainty/stability, and more flying options/opportunity... option to be admitted to a lifetime payout pension too.

Then we need to get united and go after the F__ks that did this merger and get all of our pay rates going in the right direction (US Legacy rates) because the AC contract will get opened up after this merger goes through. We need to be working together to lift all our futures.
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Last edited by altiplano on Thu May 16, 2019 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stinky
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Stinky »

Good way to get rid of the competition, hire hundreds of type rated pilots in one shot and replace the Max's with Neo's.
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FL320
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by FL320 »

John1234 wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 2:46 pm It would be minimal for everybody hired at AC pre 2016. Everybody after will have 500 people slide ahead. Many who had to bite the bullet and go make penny’s at express to get to ac. So they should just slide in? The people who quit express to go to transat come out ahead, the ones who left transat for Ac get the bottom of the barrel. Of course senior guys don’t care, typical fashion of aviation the ones at the bottom just get to keep digging a deeper hole. Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
For the last 6 years I have trained many new pilots at Air Transat and I have never seen someone hired with only 1000 hours as instructor. People are coming with turboprop or jet time from Jazz, Westjet Encore, Porter, Air Inuit and Sky Regional . They all went through an interview process with HR and CP, psy exam on computer and a sim evaluation. Almost the same hiring process when I joined Jazz some years ago ''when I had to bite the bullet and go make penny’s at express to get to ac'' (who never called me for an interview).
Like at AC or any other airline we have some assholes, however the majority are very nice people; professional and dedicated. If the deal is approved, keep in mind that we didn't want to steal your job at AC; most of us really love our job at AT and wouldn't trade it for a job at AC. I agree AC will bring better benefits and a better hourly rate. However I am not quite sure we would be able anymore to hold a Captain position on the A330 after 5 years in, nor fly the B737 8 days per month and get 23 days OFF to make some overtime if desired.
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DanWEC
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by DanWEC »

That is an honest, fair, and factual post based in actual reality.

What's it doing on this forum? :)
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land3
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by land3 »

Mrbobmarly111 wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 3:55 pm It will be BOTL. When Canadian merged with AC years ago they went BOTL. It sucks but ACPA has a obligation to its pilots. Research previous AC mergers of you dont believe me.
The merge with Canadian was BOTL? Is that what everyone thinks happened?
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Ah_yeah
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Ah_yeah »

That is so NOT what happened. Nice try whoever posted that. :lol:
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pianokeys
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by pianokeys »

YEAH OKAY. No, AC got the shaft. Canadian guys got the consolation prize, the "sorry we bought out your mismanaged airline" prize of an extra few years.

Back in my ramp days I worked with a guy who claimed he had 40 years of seniority. That meant he started when he was 14.
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Habslover
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Habslover »

Excuse me, I am a little confused....why on god green eart would AT pilot go to AC and go BOTL???

I punch my time flying uh wide body tree turdy last 12 yr. You think Sr. Capitan is going to go backward and fly little bus?? I don’t think so my friends, Air Transat will merge and fair the better of the two company, AC pilot have sucked at the tit for far to long, time to share some of dis, no?

Our Union have been working hard for us, in case of this event. We have the greater toolbox. We will have the great seniority.

The sky is definitely blue today and I feel a strong wind from behind.
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mbav8r
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by mbav8r »

Habslover wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:44 am Excuse me, I am a little confused....why on god green eart would AT pilot go to AC and go BOTL???

I punch my time flying uh wide body tree turdy last 12 yr. You think Sr. Capitan is going to go backward and fly little bus?? I don’t think so my friends, Air Transat will merge and fair the better of the two company, AC pilot have sucked at the tit for far to long, time to share some of dis, no?

Our Union have been working hard for us, in case of this event. We have the greater toolbox. We will have the great seniority.

The sky is definitely blue today and I feel a strong wind from behind.
Pretty funny and also delusional, you will not be ALPA when the dust settles, first order of business for a merger of two unions is a vote for which union to represent you, who has the majority will win! How many AT pilots, how many AC pilots again?
The ACPA pilots were contemplating joining ALPA, ALPA merger policy between two ALPA carriers is DOH, ACPA seniority policy is one sentence(I’m given to understand), it states, merger will be BOTL. which way do you think the vote will go based on that.
That’s the reality, I wish it could be different but I seriously doubt anyone will support wide body Captains way out of seniority, and knowing how important seniority is to AC pilots(history), I have no reason to think this will be any different, looking forward to the “original Air Canada” pilot stickers coming out again.
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islandguy
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by islandguy »

Habslover wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:44 am Excuse me, I am a little confused....why on god green eart would AT pilot go to AC and go BOTL???

I punch my time flying uh wide body tree turdy last 12 yr. You think Sr. Capitan is going to go backward and fly little bus?? I don’t think so my friends, Air Transat will merge and fair the better of the two company, AC pilot have sucked at the tit for far to long, time to share some of dis, no?

Our Union have been working hard for us, in case of this event. We have the greater toolbox. We will have the great seniority.

The sky is definitely blue today and I feel a strong wind from behind.
Should we read this in the form of a poetry slam, or something?
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

During the Canadian merger there was a lot of strife over the fact that Canadian law didn't recognize DOH as the basis for seniority. There was a push to change the law after the fiasco of the merger. Does anyone know if the law was ever changed to recognize DOH, or if it's still the way it was back then?

What the law says is ultimately what form mergers take in Canada.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

mbav8r wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:59 am you will not be ALPA when the dust settles
ACPA must be loving the timing of this buy out since it means there is no way AC pilots are going to vote for ALPA now. The conspiracy theorist in me can't help wonder if that was a small part of the reasoning for the company to jump on this deal. I suspect they'd much rather negotiate against ACPA.
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TFTMB heavy »

mbav8r wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:59 am
Habslover wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:44 am Excuse me, I am a little confused....why on god green eart would AT pilot go to AC and go BOTL???

I punch my time flying uh wide body tree turdy last 12 yr. You think Sr. Capitan is going to go backward and fly little bus?? I don’t think so my friends, Air Transat will merge and fair the better of the two company, AC pilot have sucked at the tit for far to long, time to share some of dis, no?

Our Union have been working hard for us, in case of this event. We have the greater toolbox. We will have the great seniority.

The sky is definitely blue today and I feel a strong wind from behind.
Pretty funny and also delusional, you will not be ALPA when the dust settles, first order of business for a merger of two unions is a vote for which union to represent you, who has the majority will win! How many AT pilots, how many AC pilots again?
The ACPA pilots were contemplating joining ALPA, ALPA merger policy between two ALPA carriers is DOH, ACPA seniority policy is one sentence(I’m given to understand), it states, merger will be BOTL. which way do you think the vote will go based on that.
That’s the reality, I wish it could be different but I seriously doubt anyone will support wide body Captains way out of seniority, and knowing how important seniority is to AC pilots(history), I have no reason to think this will be any different, looking forward to the “original Air Canada” pilot stickers coming out again.
Do not feed this troll. He/she does not work for Air Transat.
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