Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

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Transition9er2
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Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by Transition9er2 » Thu May 16, 2019 9:02 pm

Hi all,

What are the chances this possible AC / AT deal results in Jazz losing our 60% flow we just committed to? Anyone know if there’s some fine print out there that speaks to this... good or bad?

Or did the pilot need just go from 550+ to 0 at AC while they do cross training over the next few months.

Definitely not a slow news week in aviation is it?!
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speedah
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by speedah » Fri May 17, 2019 4:37 am

Everyone needs to relax !

Let the deal actually be signed first. And AC isn’t just taking 550 pilots with no aircraft, the planes are coming too. AC will still be short pilots regardless.
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goleafsgo
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by goleafsgo » Fri May 17, 2019 7:15 am

speedah wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:37 am
Everyone needs to relax !

Let the deal actually be signed first. And AC isn’t just taking 550 pilots with no aircraft, the planes are coming too. AC will still be short pilots regardless.
Not all the planes will fly for AC. I assume the 310's and probably the 737NG's will be parked. The hiring may slow for a few months once this goes through but we haven't lost the flow
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by seven-oh-nooo » Fri May 17, 2019 11:33 am

I don’t have a horse in this race but from what I do know I imagine Jazz folks can keep sleeping well. If you want to stare at the ceiling all night over something think about how AC can cripple WJ by fast tracking all the applicants from there right now.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by KenoraPilot » Fri May 17, 2019 12:47 pm

I highly doubt the flow will stop, there are so many moving pieces at the moment with WJ and ONEX and AC + AT. Things will continue to move, retirements will continue to ramp up over the next 10 years. Guessing and worrying will only make things worse for you in the mean time. So just go to work, enjoy the people and what you do. All things will happen in their own time. It is 100% out of your control at this point so just hold on and be positive.
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Inverted2
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by Inverted2 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:41 pm

Even if you decide to stay at Jazz it's a pretty good gig after you get through the first few years. Decent pay. Great perdiems and benefits.
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thesimplelife
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by thesimplelife » Fri May 17, 2019 4:43 pm

No matter what, any hiring done at AC must have 60% of their pilots come from Jazz. Now a merger is different but I don't see the flow changing when it comes to actual new hires.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by Yycjetdriver » Fri May 17, 2019 5:08 pm

Everyone outside Jazz hope so! Doubtful though.
Dumb enough to sign a 17 year deal, should have to endure all 17 years. Sell out future pilots to chase a carrot, would be deserved if that carrot was to get yanked.
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mixturerich
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by mixturerich » Fri May 17, 2019 5:18 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:41 pm
Even if you decide to stay at Jazz it's a pretty good gig after you get through the first few years. Decent pay. Great perdiems and benefits.
True, I’m not sure why everyone is always shitting on Jazz around here, it was always a good job and nothing has majorly changed. Few years of pay sacrifice for a really good career. What’s all the fuss about?
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Inverted2
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by Inverted2 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:24 pm

I view it as I don't have to change more than 0-3 time zones in a pairing. Usually 0. I can bid to be home every night. I'm not flying 12 hours at FL390 which isn't good for you. I do layovers mostly in Canada. I enjoy flying and average 12-14 flights on a pairing. Not 1 with autoland. :lol:
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ahramin
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by ahramin » Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 pm

How could this have more than a minimal effect on flow? If AC buys TS, it's not in order to get the pilots. The customers, routes, gates, slots, planes, infrastructure, sure. The travel agencies and hotels, maybe. The pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics, nope. A AC/TS merger will be about the size of AC + TS before the merger. Any hiring planned will still be needed, plus any hiring that TS had planned. Think of it this way, the flow before was for enough pilots for AC and Rouge, now it's for AC, Rouge, and TS. More flow, not less.
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DH8Pilot
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by DH8Pilot » Sat May 18, 2019 3:26 am

If both operations are merged, there is quite a bit of overlapping that can be reduced to maximize efficiency. The A310s will likely be sold off. The 737s and A330-200s may be as well. Overall, Air Transat will likely not be as large as it is now.

That being said, AC is still short on pilots. Ground schools will continue for the foreseeable future as retirement ramp up. The merger of Transat will just likely result in a lesser number of pilots needed, so expect less ground schools or a lesser number of pilots in each ground school. However, Jazz pilots will still make up 60% of each ground school. It'll just slow down the rate that we're hired at AC a bit, and likely the movement we'll see once we're at AC. That said, once everything shakes out in a few years, the Transat group will only represent 1/8th to 1/10th of the total number of AC pilots.
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Mike1985
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by Mike1985 » Sat May 18, 2019 5:20 am

I guess this is not going to reduce AC’s hiring and obviously will not affect jazz flow through. But the time to upgrade will increase significantly for the new AC recruits.
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co-joe
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by co-joe » Sat May 18, 2019 11:30 am

goleafsgo wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:15 am

Not all the planes will fly for AC. I assume the 310's and probably the 737NG's will be parked. The hiring may slow for a few months once this goes through but we haven't lost the flow
Just a thought. AC has roughly 100 737 NG rated pilots sitting on their duff right now and AT is in the process of getting out of the 737 in favour of the 321 NEOs. AC could well put the AT 37's in service with pilots on hand with a simple computer cross training course.
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speedah
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by speedah » Sun May 19, 2019 6:08 am

I’m sure you’re aware that this deal will not simply take place overnight. It may be signed in the next 30 days, but there is still months of stuff that needs to happen before the deal is officially closed. The max will be flying by then! (I hope )
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lownslow
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by lownslow » Sun May 19, 2019 9:31 pm

DH8Pilot wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:26 am
If both operations are merged, there is quite a bit of overlapping that can be reduced to maximize efficiency. The A310s will likely be sold off. The 737s and A330-200s may be as well. Overall, Air Transat will likely not be as large as it is now.
All other things being equal, if Transat shrinks who will make up the difference in the number of passengers who want to travel? I doubt they’d just hand it over to WestJet, though I’ve been wrong before.
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Re: Any chance we just lost our AC flow?

Post by tsgas » Sun May 26, 2019 12:20 pm

lownslow wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:31 pm
DH8Pilot wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:26 am
If both operations are merged, there is quite a bit of overlapping that can be reduced to maximize efficiency. The A310s will likely be sold off. The 737s and A330-200s may be as well. Overall, Air Transat will likely not be as large as it is now.
All other things being equal, if Transat shrinks who will make up the difference in the number of passengers who want to travel? I doubt they’d just hand it over to WestJet, though I’ve been wrong before.
Keep in mind that Air Transat was losing $ with it's high volume/low fare business model. Fewer pax at higher fares on more efficient A/C would mean a positive return on investment.
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