Swoop pay

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laserstrike
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by laserstrike »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 1:28 pm
Lukymayer wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 10:56 am
FICU wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 pm Captain Hourly Rates
Step 1 - $103.57
Step 2 - $119.50
Step 3 - $131.46z
That is horrible wage. I am 737 FO from Czech Republic, time to time flying here in cooperation between my company and Sunwing, so I am curious about wage scale here in Canada. To be honest I was looking for to stay in Canada but compair living cost here against Czech with those wages is kind of immposible. This CPT wage shown above is redicilous. That money Have FO in Europe for 65 hours flying. 3x lower cost for life there. Thats why we have already 6 cpt from Swoop or the other canadian airline in the Europe. I wish and hope for pilots wages increase here in Canada too.
Are you trolling? I really hope so. You being here is part of the problem.
Lol no it's not.
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munzil
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by munzil »

Yycjetdriver wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 1:28 pm
Lukymayer wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 10:56 am
FICU wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 pm Captain Hourly Rates
Step 1 - $103.57
Step 2 - $119.50
Step 3 - $131.46z
That is horrible wage. I am 737 FO from Czech Republic, time to time flying here in cooperation between my company and Sunwing, so I am curious about wage scale here in Canada. To be honest I was looking for to stay in Canada but compair living cost here against Czech with those wages is kind of immposible. This CPT wage shown above is redicilous. That money Have FO in Europe for 65 hours flying. 3x lower cost for life there. Thats why we have already 6 cpt from Swoop or the other canadian airline in the Europe. I wish and hope for pilots wages increase here in Canada too.
Are you trolling? I really hope so. You being here is part of the problem.
They also bring their own planes over and fill a seasonal need. Without this arrangement most of the Sunwing pilots would be laid of for half of the year.

You are nothing but a troll yourself. Know your facts before you open your mouth on something you know nothing about.
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by altiplano »

Of course it's a problem.

It lets a company circumvent our laws to run an unsustainable business model that skims the cherry seasonal flying to the detriment of the companies that only employ pilots with the right to work here, and somehow manage to do it year round.

This puts downward pressure on Canadian wages.
This results on lost opportunity for more Canadian pilots.
This results in lost taxation by our government.

All so the punters can save a fin on their all inclusive week at a 2½★ dump with watered down "rum" and a broken toilet...
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munzil
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by munzil »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 6:31 am Of course it's a problem.

It lets a company circumvent our laws to run an unsustainable business model that skims the cherry seasonal flying to the detriment of the companies that only employ pilots with the right to work here, and somehow manage to do it year round.

This puts downward pressure on Canadian wages.
This results on lost opportunity for more Canadian pilots.
This results in lost taxation by our government.

All so the punters can save a fin on their all inclusive week at a 2½★ dump with watered down "rum" and a broken toilet...
Sure that's what it is. Compared to every single other country that also brings in foreign pilots including Australia and New Zealand along with the US but still managed to pay double what Canada pays. Nothing to do with selling out your soul for a 17 year contract eh Altiplano?

Sounds like you figured it out in one there.

As to the 2.5 star dump, I'm writing this post from the Royalton owned by Sunwing. If this is what 2.5 star get you, works for me
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ant_321
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by ant_321 »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 6:31 am Of course it's a problem.

It lets a company circumvent our laws to run an unsustainable business model that skims the cherry seasonal flying to the detriment of the companies that only employ pilots with the right to work here, and somehow manage to do it year round.

This puts downward pressure on Canadian wages.
This results on lost opportunity for more Canadian pilots.
This results in lost taxation by our government.

All so the punters can save a fin on their all inclusive week at a 2½★ dump with watered down "rum" and a broken toilet...
For the last few years the number of Canadians SWG has sent to Europe has far outweighed the number of Europeans coming to Canada. How exactly does that result in lost opportunity for Canadian pilots?
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by altiplano »

It's an unsustainable business model without circumventing Canadian laws. Make it work year round.

17 year contract? Don't know what you're talking about there, had nothing to do with me, but in my opinion it seems a bunch of kids voted with a plan to leave and sold out the next crop.
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munzil
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by munzil »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 8:56 am It's an unsustainable business model without circumventing Canadian laws. Make it work year round.

17 year contract? Don't know what you're talking about there, had nothing to do with me, but in my opinion it seems a bunch of kids voted with a plan to leave and sold out the next crop.
What laws have been circumvented Altiplano?
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by altiplano »

munzil wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:07 am
altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 8:56 am It's an unsustainable business model without circumventing Canadian laws. Make it work year round.

17 year contract? Don't know what you're talking about there, had nothing to do with me, but in my opinion it seems a bunch of kids voted with a plan to leave and sold out the next crop.
What laws have been circumvented Altiplano?
You must know that they get waivers to allow TFWs, to operate without Canadian licenses, to operate non Canadian registered aircraft.

Those waivers allow Sunwing to circumvent the laws.
Those waivers are in existence to allow an exception to support temporary or extraordinary measurers.
Instead the abuse of them has become the business model.
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ant_321
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by ant_321 »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:34 am
munzil wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:07 am
altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 8:56 am It's an unsustainable business model without circumventing Canadian laws. Make it work year round.

17 year contract? Don't know what you're talking about there, had nothing to do with me, but in my opinion it seems a bunch of kids voted with a plan to leave and sold out the next crop.
What laws have been circumvented Altiplano?
You must know that they get waivers to allow TFWs, to operate without Canadian licenses, to operate non Canadian registered aircraft.

Those waivers allow Sunwing to circumvent the laws.
Those waivers are in existence to allow an exception to support temporary or extraordinary measurers.
Instead the abuse of them has become the business model.
Sunwing hasn’t had foreigners flying C reg airplanes in several years.
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by altiplano »

Exactly, but either way...

Foreign airlines, with foreign pilots, flying foreign aircraft, in a sovereign country full of its own airlines, pilots, and aircraft.

We don't have a dearth of other options to accommodate the traveling public that justify these waivers. Why even have our own licensing, regulations, and registration system if we're just going to apply a waiver to foreign business?

They don't have 7th or 9th freedom rights... but they get a waiver to operate to support Sunwing's non-sustainable business model.

Unforseen events happen to justify short term need of wet leases, etc. But when it's the whole plan? It's a problem and not good for the greater industry. Sunwing should develop its own feed and diversify its own operation, or reduce its scope of seasonal operation so it doesn't need foreign pilots.
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ant_321
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by ant_321 »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 4:14 pm Exactly, but either way...

Foreign airlines, with foreign pilots, flying foreign aircraft, in a sovereign country full of its own airlines, pilots, and aircraft.

We don't have a dearth of other options to accommodate the traveling public that justify these waivers. Why even have our own licensing, regulations, and registration system if we're just going to apply a waiver to foreign business?

They don't have 7th or 9th freedom rights... but they get a waiver to operate to support Sunwing's non-sustainable business model.

Unforseen events happen to justify short term need of wet leases, etc. But when it's the whole plan? It's a problem and not good for the greater industry. Sunwing should develop its own feed and diversify its own operation, or reduce its scope of seasonal operation so it doesn't need foreign pilots.
Many countries have no problem with foreign airlines operating from their country to other destinations. I spent half my winter flying from the USA to Mexico and the Caribbean.

I could argue all day about how it actually increases jobs for Canadians and provides an awesome opportunity for Canadians to go live in some pretty cool places (and get compensated pretty darn well for doing so), avoids otherwise unavoidable layoffs, etc., but you already have your mind made up so I’ll agree to disagree.
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Diadem
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by Diadem »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 4:14 pm Exactly, but either way...

Foreign airlines, with foreign pilots, flying foreign aircraft, in a sovereign country full of its own airlines, pilots, and aircraft.

We don't have a dearth of other options to accommodate the traveling public that justify these waivers. Why even have our own licensing, regulations, and registration system if we're just going to apply a waiver to foreign business?

They don't have 7th or 9th freedom rights... but they get a waiver to operate to support Sunwing's non-sustainable business model.

Unforseen events happen to justify short term need of wet leases, etc. But when it's the whole plan? It's a problem and not good for the greater industry. Sunwing should develop its own feed and diversify its own operation, or reduce its scope of seasonal operation so it doesn't need foreign pilots.
Are you also opposed to Canadian water bombers operating in the US and Australia during the winter?
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by altiplano »

LOL... Are you really comparing the needs of protecting life and property with the need for a cheap all inclusive? What's next Canadian soldiers deploying overseas on peacekeeping?

You could argue all day, but you'd be wrong, and opportunities to "live somewhere cool" aren't why we set policy.

Why do you think these laws even exist? Anyway agree to disagree indeed...
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laserstrike
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by laserstrike »

If anyone wants to go live and work somewhere cool, feel free to write the 14 or so exams and get a European license.
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eyebrow737
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by eyebrow737 »

altiplano wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 5:43 am LOL... Are you really comparing the needs of protecting life and property with the need for a cheap all inclusive? What's next Canadian soldiers deploying overseas on peacekeeping?

You could argue all day, but you'd be wrong, and opportunities to "live somewhere cool" aren't why we set policy.

Why do you think these laws even exist? Anyway agree to disagree indeed...
Altiplano, you seem to fashion yourself a regulator. Maybe you should switch careers.

The government sets the decision by allowing this behaviour. You may disagree with is, but thankfully your opinion is not worth skree.

As pointed out by others and with my actual experience, Canadians are all around the world working in aviation and we have gained for that.

If I remember correctly, you work here at air Canada.

If you want to focus your attention on unjust happenings maybe you can point it inward.

The reason why Sunwing has to resort to its business model is because to compete directly against us would be a death blow to the company. They are a privately owned company that is not backed by the government.

Come the next recession, we know who the government will be protecting don't we? Certainly not Sunwing.

So, you might criticize other companies practices which are common the world wide (I in fact know a number of canadians who hit Australia every each year and used to be one of them, the Aussies have always been very welcoming) but in reality if you want then to compete directly against us, you know they will fail and you are just protecting your own job and really don't car about anyone else in reality.

Which just makes you part of the problem.

Typical of us Canadians. We would all flee to the states if we had the chance but damn anyone who comes here.
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Diadem
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by Diadem »

altiplano wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 5:43 am LOL... Are you really comparing the needs of protecting life and property with the need for a cheap all inclusive? What's next Canadian soldiers deploying overseas on peacekeeping?

You could argue all day, but you'd be wrong, and opportunities to "live somewhere cool" aren't why we set policy.

Why do you think these laws even exist? Anyway agree to disagree indeed...
So you don't think Americans and Australians are capable of operating water bombing aircraft? That's a pretty bigoted statement. There's something special about Canadian pilots? American and Australian companies are perfectly capable of operating water bombers, but Canadian pilots do it for cheaper. We're takin' their jobs!
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munzil
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by munzil »

altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:34 am
munzil wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:07 am
altiplano wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 8:56 am It's an unsustainable business model without circumventing Canadian laws. Make it work year round.

17 year contract? Don't know what you're talking about there, had nothing to do with me, but in my opinion it seems a bunch of kids voted with a plan to leave and sold out the next crop.
What laws have been circumvented Altiplano?
You must know that they get waivers to allow TFWs, to operate without Canadian licenses, to operate non Canadian registered aircraft.

Those waivers allow Sunwing to circumvent the laws.
Those waivers are in existence to allow an exception to support temporary or extraordinary measurers.
Instead the abuse of them has become the business model.
you sound like a blast at a party. You know altiplano, foreigners have been flying in different countries around the world for the past 100 years and will continue to do so. None of your whining will change that.

Lots of people think it is a great thing and others who have never lived and worked anywhere else but the country the just happened to be born in - don't think it is. Neither of their opinions matter one bit.
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altiplano
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by altiplano »

Oh the weight of all the strawmen and ignorance is crushing me... let alone the personal attacks now!

You guys don't understand and can't even support your own argument.
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Diadem
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by Diadem »

altiplano wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:51 pm Oh the weight of all the strawmen and ignorance is crushing me... let alone the personal attacks now!

You guys don't understand and can't even support your own argument.
Sounds like someone was confronted with his own hypocrisy, and fled in the face of overwhelming reason...
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Handover
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Re: Swoop pay

Post by Handover »

altiplano wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:51 pm Oh the weight of all the strawmen and ignorance is crushing me... let alone the personal attacks now!

You guys don't understand and can't even support your own argument.
Do you ever listen to yourself?
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