Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

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photofly
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by photofly »

pelmet wrote: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:07 pm
I wasn't even aware that two stroke operators don't have to be aware of oil pressure and temp.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not sure either... but if you're adding oil to the fuel as you burn it (which is implied by having to worry about your fuel/oil mixture) then the oil isn't recirculating or being used to remove heat, so it doesn't need to be pumped at pressure, and it's just going to sit at ambient temperature for wherever you keep your oil tank, so why would you monitor its temperature?

I guess you need to worry more about oil quantity more though.

Anyway, swings and roundabouts.
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pelmet
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by pelmet »

Thanks,

Hopefully some people with direct knowledge of two -stroke and four-stroke operations can add to this.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by jakeandelwood »

Well outboard motors are probably the most abused motors out their, they live in the harshest environment, are cooled with salt water, sit all winter long outside and they are operated at max throttle constantly. Johnson/ Evinrude made 2 stroke outboards from like 3 horsepower up to their big bad 300 hp V8 outboard, they are the only outboard manufacturer that still makes 2 strokes. I had a 25 Evinrude and that pushed my 15'000 pound sail boat, that thing went and went, never let me down. I don't see why corrosion would be any different between 4 or 2 stroke. If they can survive hanging of the back of a boat in the ocean then they can't be that bad.
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by PilotDAR »

But isn't the challenger powered by an air cooled Rotax? It's the Scorpion which is powered by the liquid cooled Evinrude....
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pelmet
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by pelmet »

Following up on causes for two-stroke engine failures....

I found one today. No fault of the engine itself in this case.

"C-IDRB, a privately operated Quad City Challenger Basic Ultra-light aircraft, was conducting a
local flight from Edmonton/Cooking Lake (CEZ3), AB with only the pilot on board. During cruise
flight at 1200 feet AGL approximately 8 nm south west of CEZ3, the engine (BRP Rotax 447) lost
power. The pilot declared a MAYDAY, and conducted a forced landing in a farm field. During the
rollout after the touchdown, the nose landing gear collapsed, and the aircraft came to rest. The
pilot, who was the sole occupant, was uninjured. Varnish fuel residue in the fuel tank became loose,
and was ingested into the main fuel line. This resulted in a fuel blockage that caused the engine to
stop because of fuel starvation."
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pelmet
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by pelmet »

Another one with a blockage in the fuel feed system.....

C-IIOB, a privately operated Quad City Challenger II Advanced Ultra-light aircraft, was conducting
a local flight from a private strip approximately 22 nm south east of High Level (CYOJ), AB with
only the pilot on board. Prior to the takeoff, the pilot completed preflight checks, and no anomalies
were noted. Shortly after becoming airborne at an altitude of approximately 75 to 100 feet AGL, the
engine (Rotax 582) stopped abruptly. The aircraft subsequently descended and impacted the
ground, coming to a rest slightly to the right of the centerline on the airstrip. The aircraft was
substantially damaged, and the pilot received minor injuries.
The owner subsequently completed a preliminary investigation into the loss of power and believes
that the cause was fuel starvation due to foreign material entering the fuel selector valve, blocking
fuel flow to the engine.
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by PilotDAR »

A fuel system blockage is not good, but it's:
The aircraft subsequently descended and impacted the ground, coming to a rest slightly to the right of the centerline on the airstrip.
That makes it sound as though the pilot either stopped flying the plane, or failed to achieve and maintain a suitable gliding speed. If the report read "ran off the end of the runway", that would show that the pilot climbed away maintaining flying speed, and upon failure, entered a glide so that a successful power off landing could be accomplished. For most takeoffs, there is no reason to not achieve and maintain gliding speed after takeoff, just in case it quits. I oppose needless steep or slow climbouts, particularly in draggy planes which do not easily transition to a nice glide.
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pelmet
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by pelmet »

PilotDAR wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:52 am A fuel system blockage is not good, but it's:
The aircraft subsequently descended and impacted the ground, coming to a rest slightly to the right of the centerline on the airstrip.
That makes it sound as though the pilot either stopped flying the plane, or failed to achieve and maintain a suitable gliding speed. If the report read "ran off the end of the runway", that would show that the pilot climbed away maintaining flying speed, and upon failure, entered a glide so that a successful power off landing could be accomplished. For most takeoffs, there is no reason to not achieve and maintain gliding speed after takeoff, just in case it quits. I oppose needless steep or slow climbouts, particularly in draggy planes which do not easily transition to a nice glide.

Difficult to say without much detail. But you bring up a good point about draggy airplanes like low-powered biplanes. They lose speed fast after an engine failure and the nose needs to be pushed over quickly, which may be opposite to instinctive reaction.

I have been climbing out more slowly at Vx at some locations in some aircraft types in order to be able to make a turnback option available earlier. It depends on the situation.
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Re: Small Plane Crash at Carp - Pilot Injured

Post by pelmet »

AirFrame wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:53 pm
pelmet wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:37 pmI am no expert on homebuilts and ultralights but would it be safe to say that homebuilts are likely only as good as the person that built it. Same with ultralights.
It would be safe to say that any aircraft is only as good as the person, people, or company who build and maintain it.

That said, keep in mind that Ultralights have no mandated oversight during construction or subsequent maintenance. Just the builder/owner looking out for their own *ss. If mistakes are made during construction, it's likely that nobody will catch them.

Amateur-built aircraft (we have no "homebuilt" classification in Canada) are subject to significant oversight during construction. More so than even the litigious US, which is partly why so many Canadian AB aircraft disappear south when sold. So for AB aircraft, you have both the builder looking out for their *ss, and an inspector looking out for it as well. Subsequent maintenance is all done by the owner, so once it's flying you're no better off than the Ultralight owner, but at least at the outset, the plane was better inspected than the Ultralight. If it's maintained to the same standard it was built to, it should be fine.

Factory-built aircraft are also subject to oversight during construction, but even that doesn't prevent errors from getting through. AME's also miss things from time to time.
A couple of recent articles in EAA Sport Aviation magazine give an idea of what kind of a world you are entering in homebuilt/amateur built aircraft. A world where you better know what you are doing when it comes to aircraft construction(or have someone working for you who knows). I suspect one problem with these aircraft builders is that they may be really good at engines but lack knowledge in electrical or great with wood but lack experience in some other area.

https://inspire.eaa.org/2020/07/09/batt ... ternators/

"I see many airplanes come through our shop with absolutely horrible electrical systems installed in them. Some even take me a while to figure out, especially those with unlabeled switches. Others seem to be designed to give the builder some kind of false sense of security. As an example, I have seen aircraft with dual electronic ignition systems having a backup battery that would never work if it was really needed because it was never properly connected to the charging system or routinely tested.

Another area that causes problems is not understanding how critical it is to properly size the wires. The largest wire in the system will be from the main battery all the way through the solenoids to the starter. This is usually a “0” or “00” gauge wire. It is super important that the ground wire from the battery to the airframe and from the airframe to the engine is of the same size. I see way too many installations where the ground wire is the same size as the alternator wire, which is horribly wrong. A starter can draw 200-300 amps when energized, hence the need for a very large wire. Most alternators are 40-60 amps, which only require a 6 or 8 AWG wire, which is substantially different than 00. Since a 6 or 8 AWG can’t carry 200-300 amps, guess where all of the rest of the current flows? It goes through every other metal or wire connection to the engine, such as engine control cables, shields on shielded wires, etc. Undersized grounds make for slow-turning starters, which everybody initially thinks is a battery problem. Don’t get fooled."


https://inspire.eaa.org/2020/06/17/fly-straight/

The row of composite homebuilt aircraft gleamed in the glow of the setting sun on the second day of EAA AirVenture Oshkosh. The excitement of the day’s activities seemed to float in the air as spectators wandered with smiles on their faces through the displays and rows of aircraft types.

A man and woman made their way urgently down one row of airplanes.

“Cindy, this is the one here,” Kevin said, coming up to one particular composite aircraft.

“It’s gorgeous,” Cindy said. “What a phenomenal paint job and workmanship detail. So, did you talk to the owner? Is he willing to accept our offer?”

“He is,” Kevin said. “I made it contingent on a prebuy flight. Joe took a thorough look at the airplane yesterday and said everything looks fine. I can’t see how we can go wrong. This is the third owner, though, which I find interesting. There are only 250 hours on the aircraft.”

The next day, Kevin arrived early for the flight. The owner flew the aircraft away from the hustle and bustle of the field and turned the controls over to Kevin. As he took the stick, Kevin noticed a strange sensation that he could not name.

“Roger, I think the trim is off or something is loose,” he said. “The nose is wandering side to side. I can feel it in the stick. It’s like a cyclical yaw.”

“Oh, it’s always done that,” Roger said. “The previous owner said it was normal. I just put on the autopilot, and it seems to hold the heading okay.”

In the midst of the excitement, Kevin dismissed the strange motion as wind effect and a different aircraft than what he was used to. They landed and the deal was completed.

Three days later Kevin and Cindy left for home in their new homebuilt. As soon as they left the field and established cruise, Cindy said, “There’s something wrong somewhere.”

“Naw, Roger said that was normal.”

“It’s not normal,” she said. “The nose is wobbling left and right like it’s hunting for something.”

Kevin suddenly got a knot in the pit of his stomach.

“I should have paid more attention,” he said. “You’re right. This is not normal.”

When they got back to their home field, they had their mechanic, Joe, check it out. After the flight, Joe exited the aircraft shaking his head in puzzlement.

“That’s the weirdest sensation,” Joe said. “Let me go over the aircraft with a fine-toothed comb. At Oshkosh, I did check all of the components, including travel, trim, and cables.”

As they pulled the airplane into the hangar, they heard a sloshing noise at the right wingtip.

“What is that?” Kevinasked.“It can’t be fuel; the tanks are closer to the fuselage.”

A little later, with a newly cut inspection port open in the right wing near the tip, Joe was baffled to find a sealed compartment.

“Is that a third reserve fuel tank?” Cindy asked.

“No, there’s nothing running to it, and there isn’t a similar tank in the other wing to balance it. I’ll need to remove it and see what’s going on.”

They found that the strange handmade 3-gallon fiberglass tank held 2 gallons of fuel, creating a sloshing weight of 12 pounds. Once removed, Joe repaired the area and went flying. As he taxied back up to the hangar, Kevin and Cindy stood waiting patiently with great curiosity.

“Super left wing heavy,” Joe said. “Looks like the left wing was not installed correctly. No wonder we were getting that side to side action, with liquid sloshing around.”

After several days of complete disassembly and rerigging, the airplane flew perfectly.

“No more side to side hunting action,” Cindy said on the next flight.

Kevin just shook his head.

“No one will believe this story.”
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