Yes I would hate that. I didn't enjoy spin training and unusual attitudes as well but I was able to get thru it, hating that stuff is a good motivator to never get into those situations in the 1st place I guessL39Guy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:10 pmIf you hate aerobatics, you'll really hate doing an unexpected upset recovery. At least with aerobatics you know what is coming, not so with an upset.jakeandelwood wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:48 pm I hate acrobatics, I don't like being in a plane while they are being done and I will never do them in any plane I'm flying, it just freaks me out, does that make me a crappy pilot because I refuse to learn that spectrum of flying? This tail dragger flying making you a better pilot is ridiculous, maybe all the different licences should be combined into one. Flying schools could have trainers with both gear config, some gliders, hot air balloons, gyros, and regular helicopters, hell, throw in a blimp while we're at it, you must be proficient in all of them before you solo. We could drive up the cost of flight training so much we'll never have to worry about a pilot surplus again.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I however fear that the wisdom of your words will be loud enough to interdict the probability of this suggestion being raised again or repeatedly.photofly wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:52 pmYou are obfuscating the difference between:
Everyone accepts the proposition that learning to fly a taildragger is beneficial to improving flying skills. LIkewise, everyone accepts that learning to fly a glider, a gyrocopter, and a floatplane are also beneficial to improving flying skills.
- Learning to fly a taildragger, and
- Learning to fly in a taildragger.
Some people have however rejected the proposition that requiring pilots to learn to fly in a taildragger is the best way to improve flying skills.
You'd pick the pilot with zero tricycle time, over the pilot with experience of both landing gear configurations?B208 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:35 amphotofly wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:15 pm Here's another question:
You have two pilots with the say 100 hours each.
One was trained on tricycle gear until solo the other was trained on and only flew tail wheel airplnes.
You owned a Cessna 172.
Which pilot would you feel less stress letting them fly your Cessna 172 without a check out?
Yes. If someone can maintain directional control in a tail dragger during T/O and landing they need no instruction about how to maintain directional control in a 172. My only instruction to the guy would be not to attempt a wheel landing In the interests of fairness; provided I had some other indication of competence (a record of time, word of mouth reference) I'd be pretty OK letting someone take a 172 without a check out. Those aircraft are pretty much idiot proof.
In terms of hands and feet and just general aircraft handling, if you can fly tailwheel, then you are a good pilot. Pilots without good hands and feet or handling skills are simply unable to get tailwheel aircraft on or off the ground. Does this mean that a lack of tail wheel flying makes you a bad pilot? No, not at all.telex wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:59 pmHeretic! How dare you cast aspersions towards the Holy Alter of the Tailwheel!jakeandelwood wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:48 pmI hate acrobatics, I don't like being in a plane while they are being done and I will never do them in any plane I'm flying, it just freaks me out, does that make me a crappy pilot because I refuse to learn that spectrum of flying? This tail dragger flying making you a better pilot is ridiculous, maybe all the different licences should be combined into one. Flying schools could have trainers with both gear config, some gliders, hot air balloons, gyros, and regular helicopters, hell, throw in a blimp while we're at it, you must be proficient in all of them before you solo. We could drive up the cost of flight training so much we'll never have to worry about a pilot surplus again.L39Guy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:22 pm Let me toss this out there...if we really want pilots with good hands and feet - and the MAX issue is demonstrating that in spades - how about making an aerobatic endorsement mandatory, particularly if it is on a tail dragger? Hit two birds with one stone - better hands and feet from a tail dragger and aerobatics.
In addition to the better hands and feet aspect, learning aerobatics enhances upset recovery skills as well as being a confidence builder. The training done in the simulators is too artificial - put somebody upside down in a real aircraft and that is where the true learning really occurs.
If you wish redemption (pilot excellence) you must accept the holy way of the Tailwheel!
It is the only path to ease and precision brother!
Does tail wheel training improve your hands and feet? Undoubtedly. Does a lack of tail wheel flying mean you are a bad pilot? No, it just means that you are not as good of a pilot as you could be.
Yesterday, I watched with appreciative awe as a turbine Otter was landed with ease into a pond I later Google Earth measured to be 600 feet long. He eased it into the dock with flawless grace, and zero wasted motion. Maybe he's also a tailwheel pilot, maybe not, I don't care, he is an admirable pilot. He has learned precision, and raised his personal standards far in excess of what he was taught in flying school.
If the 172 trained pilot is entering piloting with those 25 steps accomplished at some level of precision, the tailwheel pilot probably enters piloting with 27 steps accomplished, and some to a higher standard of precision (or they've gone sideways off a runway at some point). If a pilot chooses to not pursue flying taildragger, or aerobatics, or floats or whatever, there's nothing bad about that. But, if the pilot is never exposed to the merits of such alternate/additional training, they may have have missed seeing the need to raise their personal standards of precision, and that's a loss.
We pilots must constantly re-evaluate our skills, and precision of piloting in the role we fly. One good way to do this, is to also fly something else....