35 people injured on AC flight.

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rookiepilot
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35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by rookiepilot » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:10 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-cana ... -1.5208458

Try wearing your seatbelt. All the time.

The stupidity of people astounds me.
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Hugh Jasshole
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by Hugh Jasshole » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:38 pm

It will be spun that it is AC's fault, they should have know about the turbulence! Just like fog and thunderstorms are the airlines fault also. Mankind is getting stupider at an alarming rate.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by jakeandelwood » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:11 pm

You would think people would just automatically put their seatbelt on when they are seated, just like a car.
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corethatthermal
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by corethatthermal » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:17 pm

Thank silicone valley that i have an app on my cell phone that determines where the CAT s are ! I just fire her up just before my legs fall into a paraplegic seizure due to modern airline seat constraints and presto! I can remove my seat belt and EVEN walk around because CAT is not forecasted for another 22.24 minutes ! Figure that ! :lol:
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by pianokeys » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:21 pm

Hugh Jasshole wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:38 pm
It will be spun that it is AC's fault, they should have know about the turbulence! Just like fog and thunderstorms are the airlines fault also. Mankind is getting stupider at an alarming rate.
Of course if the CBC is posting it, its already ACs fault.
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digits_
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by digits_ » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:02 pm

I fly with pilots that routinely unhook their shoulder harnesses for whatever perceived advantage. I don't get that either.
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tdp19
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by tdp19 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:06 pm

digits_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:02 pm
I fly with pilots that routinely unhook their shoulder harnesses for whatever perceived advantage. I don't get that either.
I have never flown with anyone at an airline who doesn’t get rid of the shoulder harness above 10,000 feet.
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Gannet167
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by Gannet167 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Shoulder belts are great for rapid deceleration and for ejection, conecting you to your parachute. The lap belt and 5th connection between your legs are what will hold you in your seat in turbulence. I also have never known anyone to wear shoulder belts above 10k unless we were flying an ejection seat.
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altiplano
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by altiplano » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:55 pm

digits_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:02 pm
I fly with pilots that routinely unhook their shoulder harnesses for whatever perceived advantage. I don't get that either.
It's just more comfortable, and as mentioned there isn't a safety advantage.
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RatherBeFlying
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I also have never known anyone to wear shoulder belts above 10k unless we were flying an

Post by RatherBeFlying » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:41 pm

ejection seat."

This glider pilot bonked his head on the canopy over the foothills not that many days ago - plus I suspect a battery connector interrupted the circuit. I thought I had my straps tight (previous head bonks). They're even tighter now.
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fish4life
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by fish4life » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:27 pm

I wonder how many long it will be until seat belts become mandatory if seated on airplanes instead of just recommended.

Also I’ll add my self to the list of not knowing anyone who wears shoulder harnesses above 10000’ unless there is known turbulence, I personally find they contribute to bad posture.
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PilotDAR
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by PilotDAR » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:23 am

It's just more comfortable, and as mentioned there isn't a safety advantage.
My couch is comfortable, and has no seatbelts. My airplane is less comfortable, and has seatbelts. I wear all of them all of the time. I'm not in my (or any) plane for comfort, so It'd rather be tied into it with all the belts. Perhaps not tightened right up, but at least latched in place.
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Rooster69
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by Rooster69 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:00 am

How come on every 5 point harness, there is a latch you can press to just unbuckle the shoulder harnesses?
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broken_slinky
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by broken_slinky » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:22 am

Haven't flown AC in years but Delta suggests that you put on your belt while seated. I always do just for that reason. Common sense is not so common these days.
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digits_
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by digits_ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:03 am

Rooster69 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:00 am
How come on every 5 point harness, there is a latch you can press to just unbuckle the shoulder harnesses?
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but mine don't have that anyways. It's all or nothing, yet people still mess around and untighten just the 2 shoulder ones.
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digits_
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by digits_ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:05 am

altiplano wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:55 pm
digits_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:02 pm
I fly with pilots that routinely unhook their shoulder harnesses for whatever perceived advantage. I don't get that either.
It's just more comfortable, and as mentioned there isn't a safety advantage.
Curious: you are flying at FL320. There is moderate and severe turbulence forecasted in the area. You are trying to avoid the worst of it, but you are getting shaken around. Do you leave your shoulder harnesses unhooked?
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altiplano
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by altiplano » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:25 am

... and do you lock down your harness?
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digits_
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by digits_ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:30 am

altiplano wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:25 am
... and do you lock down your harness?
Not sure what you mean exactly, but I wear my seatbelts/harness the same way at every time in the flight, whether I'm on short final or in cruise.

How about you answer my question now?
Curious: you are flying at FL320. There is moderate and severe turbulence forecasted in the area. You are trying to avoid the worst of it, but you are getting shaken around. Do you leave your shoulder harnesses unhooked?
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Gannet167
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by Gannet167 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:45 am

But, the shoulder harness does nothing to keep you safe unless you're decelerating. It then holds your upper torso from tilting forward and prevents hitting your head on the glareshield, like a shoulder belt of a car helps when you have a head on collision.

The lap belt is what keeps you in the seat when vertical movement would otherwise throw you up against the roof. So... On landing, especially ditching on the Hudson, shoulder straps are great. It does nothing in cruise. Pushing negative g, you'll feel the lap belt hold your thighs and hips in the seat. Unless shoulder straps are locked, they do nothing to hold you in and even then, they don't do much in the vertical. You can lock your harness so you're immobilized but it's like being in a straight jacket and then you can't reach any switches or turn to look around. I never locked my harness when flying aerobatics, even with some decent negative g. Locking it was purely for an emergency landing.

Wear shoulder straps if you want, wear them because your couch doesn't have them (not sure what that point was) wear them because they're installed. If it's a short flight or you're single engine and might have a forced landing, sure.

But there's little purpose to them after V1 until landing. Sitting for 5 or 10 hours with those filthy straps rubbing on my shoulders serves no purpose in cruise.
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digits_
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by digits_ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:03 am

Gannet167 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:45 am
But, the shoulder harness does nothing to keep you safe unless you're decelerating. It then holds your upper torso from tilting forward and prevents hitting your head on the glareshield, like a shoulder belt of a car helps when you have a head on collision.

The lap belt is what keeps you in the seat when vertical movement would otherwise throw you up against the roof. So... On landing, especially ditching on the Hudson, shoulder straps are great. It does nothing in cruise. Pushing negative g, you'll feel the lap belt hold your thighs and hips in the seat. Unless shoulder straps are locked, they do nothing to hold you in and even then, they don't do much in the vertical. You can lock your harness so you're immobilized but it's like being in a straight jacket and then you can't reach any switches or turn to look around. I never locked my harness when flying aerobatics, even with some decent negative g. Locking it was purely for an emergency landing.

Wear shoulder straps if you want, wear them because your couch doesn't have them (not sure what that point was) wear them because they're installed. If it's a short flight or you're single engine and might have a forced landing, sure.

But there's little purpose to them after V1 until landing. Sitting for 5 or 10 hours with those filthy straps rubbing on my shoulders serves no purpose in cruise.
If they are unlocked, do they act like a car seatbelt where they will lock if they feel a sudden deceleration?

If you don't mind, I'm curious: you are flying at FL320. There is moderate and severe turbulence forecasted in the area. You are trying to avoid the worst of it, but you are getting shaken around. Do you leave your shoulder harnesses unhooked?
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altiplano
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by altiplano » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:45 am

PSA warning:

One thing I notice most guys don't check, and we all should, is that the reel catches and locks your shoulder straps if you give it a quick tug.

A landing incident will see your face into the dash if it malfunctions and doesn't lock. I've seen them U/S a couple times on planes I was to fly and it's a no go snag.
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:10 pm

Wasn’t there a crash where the FO’s shoulder harness wouldn’t latch and he ended up severely injured with his face into the glare shield? Was that the AC Halifax one?
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mixturerich
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by mixturerich » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:54 pm

Why are we talking about the pilots? Everyone unlatches their shoulder belts above 10k unless it’s definitely going to be gnarly. It’s just way more comfortable. That being said, when riding as a passenger I always have my lap belt secured because why not? Who knows what kind of dummy is flying. Might as well, plus it’s hardly even noticeable if you keep it slightly loose.
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Last edited by mixturerich on Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

digits_
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by digits_ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:11 pm

mixturerich wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:54 pm
Why are we talking about the pilots? Everyone unlatched their shoulder belts above 10k unless it’s definitely going to be gnarly.
Aha, thank you! I'm assuming that the other posters would do the same.

Pilots don't wear their shoulder harness unless it is definitely going to be gnarly.

Pax don't wear their seatbelts unless it is gnarly.

So the pilots that don't wear their shoulder harness all the time, complain that the pax don't wear their seatbelt all the time.

People are people. Whether you are sitting in the front or the back, the attitudes are often the same. If you are wondering why the pax aren't wearing their seatbelts at a non-mandatory time, think about why you are not wearing you shoulder harness at a non-mandatory time: for comfort and because you don't deem it important or necessary at that time.
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fish4life
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Re: 35 people injured on AC flight.

Post by fish4life » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:08 pm

Except there is nothing uncomfortable about a lap belt in the back...
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