When do you think the 737 MAX will return to operation at Air Canada?

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:31 am

Just wondering what everybody's current guess is.

Stan Darsh · Post by **Stan Darsh** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:15 am

Probably somewhere outside of the "Air Canada" sub-forum? Thanks for stopping by though.

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:10 pm

When are passengers going to want to get back on that plane? That's the real question.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:05 pm

It will be back when Boeing has a proven fix to stop them from nosediving into the ground.

av8ts · Post by **av8ts** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:03 am

Boreas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:10 pm When are passengers going to want to get back on that plane? That's the real question.

As someone else said, by the time the plane returns to service people will have moved on to the next Facebook crisis. Also if the airlines make Max seats $25 cheaper than other types they’ll fill the plane

leftoftrack · Post by **leftoftrack** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:17 am

If only the world of aviation had seen a runway trim issue before, but now there's a body count

'97 Tercel · Post by **'97 Tercel** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:04 pm

July if they're lucky

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:24 pm

av8ts wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:03 am
Boreas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:10 pm When are passengers going to want to get back on that plane? That's the real question.
As someone else said, by the time the plane returns to service people will have moved on to the next Facebook crisis. Also if the airlines make Max seats $25 cheaper than other types they’ll fill the plane

Swoop will fill Max seats - if/when they get them - till the cows come home.

The higher-end business travelers that AC was planning on targeting with the Max might have a better memory.

I guess they could Rouge them...

pianokeys · Post by **pianokeys** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:31 am

Winner for those who voted for august or beyond!

Air Canada says Max8 Jets to Remain Grounded Until August 1st

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:50 am

Even once they agree on the solution, get the new software installed, the sim/ipad training done, and the ban lifted, this thing won't be back on the gate overnight with crews ready to go.

They are going to have to redo some level of line training and checks for Training and Check Captains, then get the regular line guys back with a training flight and a check flight. It might be as simple as a turn with line training out, line check back, but a few hundred of those with only a couple dozen checkers or so will take a couple months to get all the line pilots back in the seat.

So I would add 2-3 months to whatever date the FAA/Boeing cut this thing lose on before we will see a full schedule running on this machine.

Redwine · Post by **Redwine** » Mon May 13, 2019 12:19 pm

It takes decades to gain trust, seconds to lose it -and years to regain it. Boeing and FAA execs should be held criminally responsible with manslaughter.
The 737 will never be (re) certified in its current state. Even if it does, passengers will avoid it like the plague- leading to its eventual failure, just like the DC-10's eventual fate.This is a scandal with a capital S...

fruitloops · Post by **fruitloops** » Mon May 13, 2019 10:30 pm

We have all heard of Ethiopian Air and Lion Air + families suing Boeing but I haven't seen any mention of Airlines queuing up to get a piece of boeing after all the down time, lost sales, lost labor/resources, bad faith, etc. etc. ... Once the grounding order is lifted and airlines are able to assess the damage caused by the grounding .... AND Boeing is more or less proven responsible criminally in some manner, won't all the airlines be able to line up their suits for damages/$ from Boeing? Why hasn't there been any mention of this possibility too yet, does Boeing have an escape clause or what ???

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Mon May 13, 2019 10:51 pm

I’d imagine some kind of insurance would come into play for a problem this big. I’m sure Boeing has something written up for scenarios like this. But you’re right, the airlines will be getting their ounce of blood by the time the dust settles. IMHO

Fanblade · Post by **Fanblade** » Tue May 14, 2019 7:12 am

fruitloops wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:30 pm We have all heard of Ethiopian Air and Lion Air + families suing Boeing but I haven't seen any mention of Airlines queuing up to get a piece of boeing after all the down time, lost sales, lost labor/resources, bad faith, etc. etc. ... Once the grounding order is lifted and airlines are able to assess the damage caused by the grounding .... AND Boeing is more or less proven responsible criminally in some manner, won't all the airlines be able to line up their suits for damages/$ from Boeing? Why hasn't there been any mention of this possibility too yet, does Boeing have an escape clause or what ???

The 787 delivery delays and then grounding for example. Compensation came in the form of in store credit. The credit value will be tightly locked down by a Non Disclosure Agreement. In other words. We won’t ever know.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Tue May 14, 2019 7:32 am

fruitloops wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:30 pm We have all heard of Ethiopian Air and Lion Air + families suing Boeing but I haven't seen any mention of Airlines queuing up to get a piece of boeing after all the down time, lost sales, lost labor/resources, bad faith, etc. etc. ... Once the grounding order is lifted and airlines are able to assess the damage caused by the grounding .... AND Boeing is more or less proven responsible criminally in some manner, won't all the airlines be able to line up their suits for damages/$ from Boeing? Why hasn't there been any mention of this possibility too yet, does Boeing have an escape clause or what ???

Airlines want this to wash over as much as Boeing does... Lawsuits and more bad press hurts the airlines, possibly more than it does Boeing.

They want to get the plane back on line, get it out of the news cycle, get people back on the aircraft, negotiate a settlement, move on...

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:23 am

Congrats to those that said 2020 and beyond.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/g ... ssion=true

digits_ · Post by **digits_** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:31 am

Looks like we might be heading towards a never?

The longer it takes, the slimmer the chances they will ever find a decent fix...

Daniel Cooper · Post by **Daniel Cooper** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 am

I suspect that they will reduce all 737 positions on the next bid. What a mess. A large amount of junior people in almost all fleets will be bumped and have to retrain. I wonder if they will try to delay the bid until the Transat shareholder vote.

FighterPilot · Post by **FighterPilot** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:23 am

Next poll: How long until AC dump the MAX and go with the NEO?

ToolShed · Post by **ToolShed** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:31 am

FighterPilot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:23 am Next poll: How long until AC dump the MAX and go with the NEO?

That ship has sailed. It’s not as easy as that.

More of a A220-500. With the Transat LR options if the Max is toast.

Fanblade · Post by **Fanblade** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:43 am

From the AC Q2 discussion. AC management says the max is out of the schedule until Jan. 2020. They also stated the aircraft will take until summer 2020 to get back up in full operation.

NEO’s? I wish. AC needs a narrow body larger than the Max8. With the cancellation of all the Max9’s, and deferral of 11 Max’s, it will be either a Max10 or a 321. AC has stated they don’t need more the 50 Max8’s, and the Max9 doesn’t have the performance.

Again. Compensation will come in the form of In store credit. AC could use it to get more 787’s and then move to 321’s. They could just as easily get a bunch of Max10’s. I imagine the price tag on a Max will be pretty hard to pass on.

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:58 am

ToolShed wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:31 am
FighterPilot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:23 am Next poll: How long until AC dump the MAX and go with the NEO?
That ship has sailed. It’s not as easy as that.

More of a A220-500. With the Transat LR options if the Max is toast.

Unless I missed an announcement there is no 500 series even under development yet, I would also imagine that Boeing is putting resources into a 797 clean sheet narrow body redesign even if they aren’t publicly admitting it because they have no aircraft to compete against the 321 NEO LR and XLR’s.

BTD · Post by **BTD** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:59 pm

Daniel Cooper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 am I suspect that they will reduce all 737 positions on the next bid. What a mess. A large amount of junior people in almost all fleets will be bumped and have to retrain. I wonder if they will try to delay the bid until the Transat shareholder vote.

I wouldn’t jump on the reduction wagon just yet. From the Q2 management discussion and analysis available on the website under investor relations...

Measures taken by Air Canada to mitigate the impact of the Boeing 737 MAX grounding include:

 Substituting different aircraft on Boeing 737 MAX routes, extended leases for three Airbus A320 and three Embraer 190 aircraft which were scheduled to exit the fleet and accelerating the in- take of up to six Airbus A321 aircraft from WOW Air into its fleet.

 Contracting other carriers to provide additional capacity.

 Implementing several route changes, either changing operating times or substituting larger
aircraft with fewer frequencies on routes operated more frequently by smaller aircraft.

 In some cases, deploying Air Canada Rouge aircraft to serve mainline routes and, in a small number of cases, suspending service on certain Boeing 737 MAX routes where alternative capacity is not yet available. Air Canada remains committed to these routes and will resume service as soon as possible. In addition, some seasonal route launches, such as Montreal- Bordeaux and Vancouver-Boston, have been delayed.

 Maintaining Boeing 737 MAX aircraft training and flying requirements of pilots assigned to the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:30 am

It takes 2-4 months to train a pilot on a new type. We are 5 months away from January. I don’t see a reduction to be honest.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:16 pm

But we already have more crew than required for 24 aircraft.

It will take 2-3 months after the ban is lifted to get the existing fleet flying again, and the other deliveries won't come for up to a year to stir the airline's needs.

I see a partial reduction coming.