Direct Entry Captain Course

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PSL
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by PSL »

You can easily make 100K a year with all the draft available and some good friends in Crew Sched.

What sucks is the way management will control things. Flight Ops is full of yes men to management who don't really have much of any backbones (with the one exception). What used to be a public little boys club is now a the same club just a little less public. Make sure you're in and part of the group. In terms of dispatch, its Air Canada dispatch. Ground Crew, Air Canada ground crew. Agents are AC agents, passengers are AC passengers.

You work in the exact same conditions as our friends at Air Canada and get paid 50K less than them with worse off working conditions in my opinion. There are some fantastic First Officers who are more qualified than some Captains within the company and unfortunately they are stuck within our matrix. Some other FOs are coming from low time companies on their first jet and are just so excited and "privileged" to be flying the AC banner in a 705 operation. The standard of making 80K a year is better than anything up north, any flight instructor salary ever in YUL or YYZ. So yes things are good when it is all new to you.

DEC: Anyone who is qualified to be a DEC should think twice. Personal circumstances may dictate otherwise like having a retirement job or unable to retire because of 4 ex wives and living in a trailer park. To each their own and those people, myself included, have to accept it. You work in the sandbox for 8 years and can't go back to the right seat? This job is for you, for a year. Until you realize how much you hate it and how it isn't the same.
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Cavalier44
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by Cavalier44 »

PSL wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:38 pm You can easily make 100K a year with all the draft available and some good friends in Crew Sched.

What sucks is the way management will control things. Flight Ops is full of yes men to management who don't really have much of any backbones (with the one exception). What used to be a public little boys club is now a the same club just a little less public. Make sure you're in and part of the group. In terms of dispatch, its Air Canada dispatch. Ground Crew, Air Canada ground crew. Agents are AC agents, passengers are AC passengers.

You work in the exact same conditions as our friends at Air Canada and get paid 50K less than them with worse off working conditions in my opinion. There are some fantastic First Officers who are more qualified than some Captains within the company and unfortunately they are stuck within our matrix. Some other FOs are coming from low time companies on their first jet and are just so excited and "privileged" to be flying the AC banner in a 705 operation. The standard of making 80K a year is better than anything up north, any flight instructor salary ever in YUL or YYZ. So yes things are good when it is all new to you.

DEC: Anyone who is qualified to be a DEC should think twice. Personal circumstances may dictate otherwise like having a retirement job or unable to retire because of 4 ex wives and living in a trailer park. To each their own and those people, myself included, have to accept it. You work in the sandbox for 8 years and can't go back to the right seat? This job is for you, for a year. Until you realize how much you hate it and how it isn't the same.
Agreed on all points. Just finished four years at this company and while it wasn’t all bad, I couldn’t encourage anyone to go there at this time, especially as a DEC.

Captains at this company are egregiously underpaid. You’ll be working 19-20 days a month, doing three and four leg days, and flying into places like EWR/LGA/ORD for 80k/year. Meanwhile E190 skippers at AC are pulling in 150k-160k/year to fly virtually the same airplane with 21 more seats, and they’re working at max 16 days per month. The planes have the same red maple leaf on the tail, but you’ll absolutely be made to feel like a second class citizen.

If you’re coming to Sky with the hopes of eventually making the jump to mainline, forget it. Jazz’s new agreement stipulates that 60% of the pilots that AC hires must come from Jazz; Sky has no such agreement in place. Couple that with Sky being consistently understaffed (especially for Captains), and you can see why hiring from Sky to AC has all but ground to a standstill in the past year. Now consider the fact that Sky is due to enter union negotiations for their first contract this Fall, and you can bet the company is going to be digging its heels in and dangling the carrot of flow through over its pilot’s heads with the hope of extracting concessions during the negotiation process.

If you’re coming in as a DEC, you’ll also be subject to the fact that every FO who was already employed there who upgrades will parachute in above you in seniority, meaning you’re going to be spending a long time holding reserve at the bottom of the list.

In summary - if you have the time and experience to meet the matrix for DEC, you can certainly do better elsewhere. This is not a company to make a long-term career at and sadly, the one factor that was attractive, eventual flow to mainline, has all but ceased for the time being.
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VeRmiLLioN
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by VeRmiLLioN »

Cavalier44 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:27 am
Captains at this company are egregiously underpaid. You’ll be working 19-20 days a month, doing three and four leg days, and flying into places like EWR/LGA/ORD for 80k/year. Meanwhile E190 skippers at AC are pulling in 150k-160k/year to fly virtually the same airplane with 21 more seats, and they’re working at max 16 days per month. The planes have the same red maple leaf on the tail, but you’ll absolutely be made to feel like a second class citizen.
Pretty sure Mainline ACPA pilots didn't want to lose the E175s to Sky.

And you didn't have to accept the low paying job to fly them at Sky.

In theory, you made yourself a second class citizen.
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CanadianPilotQc
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by CanadianPilotQc »

Cavalier44 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:27 am
PSL wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:38 pm You can easily make 100K a year with all the draft available and some good friends in Crew Sched.

What sucks is the way management will control things. Flight Ops is full of yes men to management who don't really have much of any backbones (with the one exception). What used to be a public little boys club is now a the same club just a little less public. Make sure you're in and part of the group. In terms of dispatch, its Air Canada dispatch. Ground Crew, Air Canada ground crew. Agents are AC agents, passengers are AC passengers.

You work in the exact same conditions as our friends at Air Canada and get paid 50K less than them with worse off working conditions in my opinion. There are some fantastic First Officers who are more qualified than some Captains within the company and unfortunately they are stuck within our matrix. Some other FOs are coming from low time companies on their first jet and are just so excited and "privileged" to be flying the AC banner in a 705 operation. The standard of making 80K a year is better than anything up north, any flight instructor salary ever in YUL or YYZ. So yes things are good when it is all new to you.

DEC: Anyone who is qualified to be a DEC should think twice. Personal circumstances may dictate otherwise like having a retirement job or unable to retire because of 4 ex wives and living in a trailer park. To each their own and those people, myself included, have to accept it. You work in the sandbox for 8 years and can't go back to the right seat? This job is for you, for a year. Until you realize how much you hate it and how it isn't the same.
Agreed on all points. Just finished four years at this company and while it wasn’t all bad, I couldn’t encourage anyone to go there at this time, especially as a DEC.

Captains at this company are egregiously underpaid. You’ll be working 19-20 days a month, doing three and four leg days, and flying into places like EWR/LGA/ORD for 80k/year. Meanwhile E190 skippers at AC are pulling in 150k-160k/year to fly virtually the same airplane with 21 more seats, and they’re working at max 16 days per month. The planes have the same red maple leaf on the tail, but you’ll absolutely be made to feel like a second class citizen.

If you’re coming to Sky with the hopes of eventually making the jump to mainline, forget it. Jazz’s new agreement stipulates that 60% of the pilots that AC hires must come from Jazz; Sky has no such agreement in place. Couple that with Sky being consistently understaffed (especially for Captains), and you can see why hiring from Sky to AC has all but ground to a standstill in the past year. Now consider the fact that Sky is due to enter union negotiations for their first contract this Fall, and you can bet the company is going to be digging its heels in and dangling the carrot of flow through over its pilot’s heads with the hope of extracting concessions during the negotiation process.

If you’re coming in as a DEC, you’ll also be subject to the fact that every FO who was already employed there who upgrades will parachute in above you in seniority, meaning you’re going to be spending a long time holding reserve at the bottom of the list.

In summary - if you have the time and experience to meet the matrix for DEC, you can certainly do better elsewhere. This is not a company to make a long-term career at and sadly, the one factor that was attractive, eventual flow to mainline, has all but ceased for the time being.
Well you sound like someone who got pfo'off... in the last year I know personally at least 10 pilots from Sky that went on to AC, don't know what you talking about here bud...

From my understanding you stayed there 2 years as a captain, why did you accept theses conditions then?

funny pilots that spit in the soup when they get on something better..
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Cavalier44
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by Cavalier44 »

Well you sound like someone who got pfo'off... in the last year I know personally at least 10 pilots from Sky that went on to AC, don't know what you talking about here bud...

From my understanding you stayed there 2 years as a captain, why did you accept theses conditions then?

funny pilots that spit in the soup when they get on something better..
You’re entitled to your opinion - however, to set the record straight, I’ve never been PFO’d from AC, in fact I’ve never interviewed there. As for your buddies who went to AC in the past year, we all know the same people who have been successfully hired by AC, and I’m very happy for them. However, how many went before Jazz negotiated their new agreement? How many since? The fact that the process has slowed down significantly for Sky pilots since the early Spring of 2019 is not a fabrication.

It’s funny that when anyone posts something critical of a previous employer on this forum, guys seem to come out of the woodwork to attack the credibility of the poster. If you look at my post history, I was initially an ardent supporter of Sky, especially when there was a significant amount of criticism of the company on this forum.

The reason I accepted the conditions at the time are very simple - it was an ideal opportunity and lifestyle choice for me at the time. Over the last few years I’ve seen the working conditions deteriorate, which is why I’ve sought out other opportunities elsewhere. Lack of transparency, deteriorating relationship between management and the pilot/FA groups, lack of communication, an increasingly demanding schedule with many inefficient pairings, etc. have all contributed to my decision to leave. That’s my personal experience which may not be the same as yours as anyone else’s, but I’ve elected to give an honest account of my experiences so that other prospective new hires can take that into consideration when they make their decision as to whether to go to Sky.
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rudder
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by rudder »

The only way that things will improve for SKY pilots is consolidation with Jazz.

You inherit the Jazz pilot contract and for those aspiring to AC you will be included in the mandatory 60% hiring/10% maximum rejection guarantees.

If you think that you will do better at the bargaining table with SKY/AC, go for it. Jazz has already picked up guarantees for 80 75 seat airframes after 2025. That does not leave much for any other Express carriers, particularly with the arrival of 50+ c series aircraft over the next few years.
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altiplano
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by altiplano »

VeRmiLLioN wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:11 pm
Cavalier44 wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:27 am
Captains at this company are egregiously underpaid. You’ll be working 19-20 days a month, doing three and four leg days, and flying into places like EWR/LGA/ORD for 80k/year. Meanwhile E190 skippers at AC are pulling in 150k-160k/year to fly virtually the same airplane with 21 more seats, and they’re working at max 16 days per month. The planes have the same red maple leaf on the tail, but you’ll absolutely be made to feel like a second class citizen.
Pretty sure Mainline ACPA pilots didn't want to lose the E175s to Sky.

And you didn't have to accept the low paying job to fly them at Sky.

In theory, you made yourself a second class citizen.
Correct. E175 scope was STOLEN by The Ratt and the Harper Government.

Those should be Mainline jobs and SKY should only be operating 5 Q400s out of the island.
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rudder
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:06 am
Correct. E175 scope was STOLEN by The Ratt and the Harper Government.

Those should be Mainline jobs and SKY should only be operating 5 Q400s out of the island.
My prediction is those will be the last 175’s operated at Express. All are the oldest first generation models. Third generation is significantly more expensive (but significantly better performer).

AC will have to make a decision about the EMB175/CRJ900 replacements that will probably start to occur in the post 2024 time frame. Only 2 products meet ACPA scope limits - E2 EMB and the MRJ100. AC has a commercial obligation to operate a minimum of 80 75 seat Express aircraft at Jazz post 2025. It most certainly will not be 80 Q400’s. Probably 25-35 Q400’s and 45-55 76 seat jets.

As for the method of movement of the 175’s from mainline to Express - it was distasteful. Similar actions by the former government manifest at many airline bargaining tables. However, the ACPA scope limits on subcontracted regional flying are not excessively liberal vs the US. BY 2020 there will be 60 76 seat jets in service at Express. That is probably the peak and will decline nominally over time as AC removes the old 175’s from service as the A220 fleet expands.
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DanWEC
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by DanWEC »

Sky is purely a staffing company. It's AC's structure, gates, ground crew, dispatch, fuel, airplanes, even the training bill (For the sim only, not the instructors, since they're Sky pilots).
All Sky does is supply crew and mx at a cut rate, paying their employees to do the same job, on the same equipment, wearing the same uniforms, for less money and longer hours.
That being said, there are some great people there, and the combination of the tablets, AC's ACARS/Load, and good SOP's make for a surprisingly streamlined lift.
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Last edited by DanWEC on Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
iamthecaptainnow13
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by iamthecaptainnow13 »

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Jetpilot350
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Re: Direct Entry Captain Course

Post by Jetpilot350 »

NO Direct Entry Captains were hired for the September 9th ground school.
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