B1900 or flight instruction?

[av8tour]

What makes you think you can automatically fly a 1900 after getting your ratings? Unless you somehow have a guranteed opportunity then that option sounds like a gamble (you got a family to think of..). Instructing however is much more viable in terms of finding employment and sounds like ur family would benefit from being in the city

Also go check the job boards. You'll seldom ever see 1900 or any turbine jobs posted for 250hrs

I actually have a preliminary offer given that I write the IATRA and bring 250 hrs.
You would be surprised how desperate some 704 operators are these days. Especially those located in inconvenient locations where there are no incentives to live there aside from the glorious multi turbine hours.

Instructor, all the way.

Put in at least a year. Stay home and comfortable with the family. Get the PIC and night cross country time for your ATPL, or at least a good chunk of it out of the way. Fly safe. Don't do anything stupid, and you'll make important connections and build a rep for later on down the road when a referral goes a long way. You might even make some lifelong friends.

The 1900 time does nothing for you. 703,704, and 705 operators are hiring for turbines these days at 250 hours. It's insanity, and it's only going to get worse (better for low time pilots). They don't give a shit if you've got turbine time as long as you've got a heartbeat and a license. The 1900 job would take you away from your family and add nothing of value to your logbook. You could say you would get valuable experience in a two-crew environment, or fly with seasoned captains -- but with the industry in its current state, you'd be just as likely to learn terrible habits from inexperienced and inept captains... Not to mention, you don't need that prior experience to get a job in today's climate anyway!!

Instruct. Take it seriously. You'll have to master all the exercises to teach them, so you should come out of it with good hands and feet (hopefully). And you'll have to learn to deal with a bunch of different personalities in a productive and professional manner -- this sets you up nicely to be part of a professional crew, if you're thoughtful, and learn the right lessons.

If you decide later the instructor route wasn't for you, you'll at least have the PIC, family, and an easier time finding a turbine job (with a faster upgrade to captain and a better paycheck), or even an airline job.

Good luck.

I agree with the points that you have mentioned, but how certain are we that the industry will remain as thirsty for pilots in a year or two as it is now. It is a very unstable industry and I am afraid I will miss out on the opportunity. Aside from that, I really believe I will have a good time instructing as I took some of my friends and an instructor as passengers and I practiced instructing them to do certain basic exercises (without jeopardizing safety) and I got positive feedback. I love teaching and I have previous experience doing it in class environment. I am an engineer and I bring all that I learned from academics and previous experience into what I teach.

The question here becomes, could I make a living on an instructor’s wage in places like Montreal or GTA (given that I am motivated to work) without having to relocate where good wages are like Alberta?

[Trematode]

Don’t worry, you won’t be able to make a living as a brand new class 4 in Alberta, either.

[shimmydampner]

You should give up on flying. Become an Instagram "influencer."

[av8tour]

You should give up on flying. Become an Instagram "influencer."

Unfortunately I do not possess the necessary ASSets to be that influential

[av8tour]

Don’t worry, you won’t be able to make a living as a brand new class 4 in Alberta, either.

I have heard of schools giving a good base salary and and hourly pay on top once surpassing a predetermined number of hours monthly. For example, Montair pays 44K a year for Class 3 and $25/hr once over 50 hours a month.

[SpeedChecks]

The 1900 job would take you away from your family and add nothing of value to your logbook.

How would a 1900 " add nothing of value to your logbook" when your a freshly minted CPL MIFR starting out and trying to better your IFR/ 704 operational expereince?

[the-minister31]

The 1900 job would take you away from your family and add nothing of value to your logbook.

How would a 1900 " add nothing of value to your logbook" when your a freshly minted CPL MIFR starting out and trying to better your IFR/ 704 operational expereince?

I think he means the PIC time is worth way more than turbine time these days. Most jump on that 1900 job and when it's time to upgrade they have 100 PIC, maybe 125 and can't make a decision when things get tricky. Or when it's time to find that airline job and they are looking for people they can upgrade fairly quickly, you go at the bottom of the call list because you didn't take a single decision yet while flying and you are thousands of dollars from your ATPL.

Instructing is not meant for everybody, but it certainly is a good way to obtain PIC time and good experience... When you do it the right way, in a good school, with a CFI that cares. Instructing IFR also is one of the best way to sharpen your IFR skills in my opinion.

[C.W.E.]

I think he means the PIC time is worth way more than turbine time these days.

Are turbines more difficult to operate than piston engines?

[rookiepilot]

Instructing is not meant for everybody, but it certainly is a good way to obtain PIC time and good experience...

Instructing IFR also is one of the best way to sharpen your IFR skills in my opinion.

Couple questions.

I'm just curious why a boatload of 172 PIC time, repetition instructing in the circuit and nearby practice area, limited to a 10 knot crosswind and CAVOK, qualifies anyone to say they are "experienced".

Same with IFR. How does instructing the indentical hold, and identical 2 approaches at a single airport, typically in perfect VFR, add to ones actual IFR experience?

Isn't the weekend warrior PPL, for example, who might have flown all over North America, VFR and in IMC conditions, have a whole lot more experience?

Why not take the 1900 job, be an FO, and learn their how to make command decisions when called upon?

[the-minister31]

Couple questions.

I'm just curious why a boatload of 172 PIC time, repetition instructing in the circuit and nearby practice area, limited to a 10 knot crosswind and CAVOK, qualifies anyone to say they are "experienced".

Same with IFR. How does instructing the indentical hold, and identical 2 approaches at a single airport, typically in perfect VFR, add to ones actual IFR experience?

Isn't the weekend warrior PPL, for example, who might have flown all over North America, VFR and in IMC conditions, have a whole lot more experience?

Why not take the 1900 job, be an FO, and learn their how to make command decisions when called upon?

Of course it depends what instructing experience you get. If you work in a school that limit every aspect of the flight and wants to make all the decisions for you with a CFI that couldn't care less about you learning stuff, you'll have a terrible time and you'll barely learn how to manage the terrible paycheck you're getting.

When you teach on many types of aircraft many things (IFR, CPL, PPL, taildragger, etc.), with a school and a CFI that let you make most of the decisions and supervises so you learn from your mistakes... It's way different. An instructor that puts him and his students in many different scenarios, teaches him bad weather, 25+ kts crosswind, different airports, short strips, etc. will create a learning opportunity not only for his student, but for him as well. Similar to your Warrior PPL example.

And most of the time you are not dragged down by a bond, you teach one year and so somewhere else to get turbine time or 703 experience as PIC !

[the-minister31]

I think he means the PIC time is worth way more than turbine time these days.

Are turbines more difficult to operate than piston engines?

It's purely anecdotal, but every experienced pilot I know having flown both says that turbines are wayyyyyy easier than pistons. But, of course mistakes cost way more on a turbine !

[photofly]

Couple questions.

I'm just curious why a boatload of 172 PIC time, repetition instructing in the circuit and nearby practice area, limited to a 10 knot crosswind and CAVOK, qualifies anyone to say they are "experienced".

You will get a lot more experience at manoeuvring, stalls, spins, correcting botched landings, taking off and landing in a crosswind, steep turns, reading a chart, forced approaches, and a bunch of other basic stuff, as an instructor, than you would in the right seat of a 1900. One might reasonably expect.

Most recently qualified CPLs could do with some extra time on all that stuff. If you think, for example, controlled flight on the edge of a stall is a sensible skill to perfect, you might reasonably ask how much time a B1900 first officer gets to do that in the airplane he or she flies.

You won’t get a lot of weather flying, but that doesn’t mean the flying you do get doesn’t hone some skills.

[C.W.E.]

You will get a lot more experience at manoeuvring, stalls, spins, correcting botched landings, taking off and landing in a crosswind, steep turns, reading a chart, forced approaches, and a bunch of other basic stuff, as an instructor, than you would in the right seat of a 1900.

Airline flying is more a paint by numbers kind of art whereas flight training uses the full spectrum of manual flight.

[rookiepilot]

You will get a lot more experience at manoeuvring, stalls, spins, correcting botched landings, taking off and landing in a crosswind, steep turns, reading a chart, forced approaches, and a bunch of other basic stuff, as an instructor, than you would in the right seat of a 1900.

Airline flying is more a paint by numbers kind of art whereas flight training uses the full spectrum of manual flight.

Ok. I can see the argument there. Especially if with a school that allows some latitude.

I was thinking of the FO operating in a northern / remote / uncontrolled environment, winter ops, would certainly observe a lot of situations that might gain valuable experience.

I suppose both are relevant to an eventual captaincy

[C.W.E.]

I was thinking of the FO operating in a northern / remote environment, would certainly observe a lot of situations that might gain valuable experience.

True, however learning how to safely fly and make decisions as PIC is paramount to becoming a skilled safe pilot.

As to the F.O. positions and moving into the Captain position your skills will depend a lot on who you flew with as a F.O.

Some Captains are far better than others at letting the F.O. fly in difficult conditions.

[ayseven]

I wonder whether being a good, safe pilot is even valued. Its whose bum you kissed from what i have experienced. Hi ..

[ayseven]

Do what you WANT to do. The business eats people who are indecisive, not to mention what it does in the airplane. Having a family before starting out will further complicate things, but some people just like creating problems. Try to be the best.

[Trematode]

How would a 1900 " add nothing of value to your logbook" when your a freshly minted CPL MIFR starting out and trying to better your IFR/ 704 operational expereince?

There was a time not too long ago where turbine time or >12,500 lbs time would actually open doors for you (help to get hired at the airlines, for instance). I am merely saying that this is no longer the case. He's not going to get anything from the 1900 job in terms bullet points on his resume that he couldn't get from a king air or even a navajo job. He would actually be sacrificing the opportunity to build PIC time and the other requirements for his ATPL -- but more importantly, he would be sacrificing family time that he will never get back, and for not much in return.

If he decides later he wants 703/704 operational experience later, the jobs will still be out there, and he'd be in a better position to be upgraded to captain faster, or compete for the job itself if the market gets a little more competitive.

[SpeedChecks]

He would actually be sacrificing the opportunity to build PIC time and the other requirements for his ATPL -

so your saying, flying in a circle on a Cessna builds better time than a 1900 FO.....

[the-minister31]

He would actually be sacrificing the opportunity to build PIC time and the other requirements for his ATPL -

so your saying, flying in a circle on a Cessna builds better time than a 1900 FO.....

At least you use your PIC qualities to fly circles in a cessna !

[C.W.E.]

so your saying, flying in a circle on a Cessna builds better time than a 1900 FO.....

Yes.

[Trematode]

He would actually be sacrificing the opportunity to build PIC time and the other requirements for his ATPL -

so your saying, flying in a circle on a Cessna builds better time than a 1900 FO.....

As far as your logbook goes, yeah -- PIC is king. You'll probably get better hands and feet, too, although hand-bombing a 1900 in bad weather is fun as well.

An FO job on a turbine will give you operational experience in a two-crew, IFR environment. You'll gain some experience in the 704 world, and you'll find out what that's all about -- but it does absolutely nothing for your logbook when it comes to getting hired these days. 703/704 operators are gagging for pilots now that encore and jazz have sucked them all up like a shop vac, nobody gives a shit about turbine time the bar is set so low.

[SpeedChecks]

I absolutely disagree. If I was a 705 recruiter and had a resume of a 1900 FO vs 172 instructor, I’m definitely taking the 1900 FO with IFR, multi crew, multi-engine and operational experience.
No brainer!

[Trematode]

You're not a recruiter, though, and this isn't 2010 anymore.

703/704 operators already don't have the candidates to be picking and choosing. And many 705 operators don't either.

For the pilot in question, his career would probably be better served getting the PIC time now, and getting his ATPL, because 1900 jobs are a dime a dozen. It's not some once-in-a-lifetime opportunity the way it might have been perceived in the past. If he needs a bit of turbine or multi-crew later he can always get some after his AA license requirements if he really needs to. The alternative might be a long ass wait time to upgrade at some 704 or regional airline.

[Big Pistons Forever]

To the OP

How much PIC time do you have now ? If it is not enough to get your ATPL how are you going to get it as a lawn dart FO ?

Yes 704 operators are hiring brand new CPL/MEIFR pilots straight to the 1900 however alot of those guys and gals are not making it through the training. If you do decide on the 704 route I can pretty much guarantee if you had 5 2's on your CPL flight test and just scraped through the MEIFR training and flight test, the 1900 will eat you alive.

I absolutely disagree. If I was a 705 recruiter and had a resume of a 1900 FO vs 172 instructor, I’m definitely taking the 1900 FO with IFR, multi crew, multi-engine and operational experience.
No brainer!

Bottom line is pretty simple. Decent companies hire on attitude and train to experience.

If it is a choice between a not very impressive 704 FO who thinks he is hot stuff because he has some turbine 704 time and and a keen well prepared and solid C 172 instructor, I will take the C 172 instructor every time