Pilots not the only ones paying for experience...

[chipmunk]

While waiting around at an FBO yesterday, I came across this article in the Globe and Mail.

I find it very interesting how it parallels some of the PPC woes we as pilots struggle with the morality of - These doctors are basically buying experience like some individuals choose to buy PPCs in order to get the job they desire. I was amused at Dr. Hoyt's quote about pimping (if this doesn't sound familiar check out that famous PPC thread, wherever it ended up). There is a significant doctor shortage, however, which I suppose can be compared to the shortage of pilots with lots of experience (i.e. thousands and thousands of float time, etc)... but I think this is where the similarities end. Ok. Enough thinking for a beautiful Saturday morning which I happen to have off!

Full article is here

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... andHealth/

but below is a version I shortened a bit (noted by "...") to make it easier to read.

Code blue: finding room to groom new doctors

By LISA PRIEST
Friday, September 30, 2005 Posted at 9:01 AM EDT
From Friday's Globe and Mail

Keen to become an emergency-room doctor, Nick Rose knew that with only 27 residency spots available across Canada, he faced fierce competition. To boost his chances, he travelled the country doing unpaid work in five hospitals, hoping to impress.
To keep costs down, the Ottawa medical student slept in gritty youth hostels and boarding houses, and crashed on the couches of people he barely knew. He spent $4,500 on airplane flights and food. But his efforts paid off: He obtained exceptional recommendations from senior emergency physicians and academics.

Without those letters, Dr. Rose, who also has a doctorate in bio-organic chemistry, had little chance of making it into the five-year specialty of emergency medicine. With them, he was able to compete against 58 others who also made it their first choice for residency training, which doctors must complete before they are licensed to practise.

"Residency in emergency medicine has become more competitive in the last few years," said Dr. Rose, 32, who landed an emergency medicine residency at Vancouver General Hospital.

"You can blame ER [the TV show] for that."

...

Provincial governments, with the help of medical schools, determine the number of residencies for medical graduates.

But planning has been imperfect and shortages have occurred. Consequently, "not only are we stealing [doctors] from province to province," the Edmonton cardiologist said, "but we are poaching from countries that can ill afford to lose their health human resources."

For medical-school graduates, the small number of Canadian residencies -- about 1,508 spots -- means competition is intense, especially in the more coveted fields of emergency medicine, ophthalmology, ear, nose and throat (ENT), plastic surgery, and dermatology.

...

What Dr. Rose did to earn his emergency-medicine residency is not seen as remarkable, but merely what is required.

Ben Hoyt, president of the Canadian Association of Interns and Residents, said the 12 weeks during medical school in which students try specialties of their choosing used to be about rounding out an education.

But now, "all you're doing is pimping yourself to these people so that you'll get a good reference and maybe be picked by their program," Dr. Hoyt said. "You don't learn much and you definitely don't round out your education and you're paying for flights coast to coast. It's not a good system."

[cyyz]

Provincial governments, with the help of medical schools, determine the number of residencies for medical graduates.

And that's why we're underpaid....

[Chaffey]

Interesting.
But, I wont pay for experience, I'm working towards my PPC..

Chaffey

[ZBB118.10]

The simple solution is to get rid of PPC's! If the Federal government intervened here and enforced some structure into the system whereby operators were governed by rules relating to an aircraft type check-out and getting hired on, then we wouldn't have this shit show that we do. No PPC Transport Ride, just a simple type check for aircraft under a certain weight.

But then we are talking about Ottawa here, about TC. How would the poor muffins survive without those PPC ride fees?

[MCA]

the best and most impossible solution would be to allow only colleges and universities to give training leading to a CPL, along with a selection process at the entrance level. then, there wouldn't be millions of guys with a commercial licence in their pocket, and it woud be much better. i truly believe in this.

[ZBB118.10]

Actually MCA its not that impossible. JAR Licensing is going this way pretty much - lots of the ground school providers, especially the better known ones have mandatory entry requirements regarding qualifications and secondary education, and they also have entrance exams that you need to complete. Given the depth and complexity of the JAR ATPL's its a system that saves everyone time and money.

[MCA]

good to hear this... i'm looking forward days it will work this way in Canada!

[Always Moving]

You would NOT get a letter of recomendation from me, and if you do it will go along the lines of.... "this guy is a more arrogant doctor asxhxlxx whatch out for him might stab in the back anyone in his way to his dream job"

[grouchy]

ZBB118.10, good points. I was going to start a new topic but I'll follow your lead here, Does anyone know the genesis of PPC's and how they became transferrable?
Was this an atac initiative?
When did they come into being?
Amd how?
I think Cat might have some background on this.

[Schooner69]

" How would the poor muffins survive without those PPC ride fees?"

The "TC muffins" get to keep the PPC money? News to me. Or was that just a throw-away line?

Where did PPCs come from? Like most things which TC has legislated into existence, the requirment for PPCs came from us...and the dumb things we do. Most regulations are "catchup ball"...a series of incidents or accidents occur and TC has to come up with a band aid to remedy the situation.

Back in the early seventies, I picked up fifteen hours right seat on the Citation belonging to Pratt and Whitney Canada; my qualifications: an instrument rating. That's all that was required then. No groundschool, no simulator, no briefing, no nothing. Well, there was a briefing of sorts: "Don't touch anything". And the dog was there to make sure I didn't.

Anybody remember ANO 1, No2? And why it was brought into being? For those of you who might be a tad young, it was the forerunner of CAR 604. It was brought about by an accident in Eastern Canada.


In the corporate world, a pilot does not have to undergo a ride with TC to be endorsed; a company check pilot,or a chief pilot can do the honours. I believe that commercial operators which have an authorized Company Check Pilot can do their own PPCs. For those companies who do not, you're stuck with TC. And that's not a bad thing; someone, some body has to say you're competant. Let's face it: if you can't go up and show me (when I was doing it) that you can fly a Navajo, or a Commander 1000, or a Citation to a miminum standard, then maybe you don't have the skillset required to do the job. Remember, all you have to do is meet the MINIMUM standard...not be super pilot! If you can't meet the MINIMUM standard, I don't want to fly with you. Period

A PPC is not terribly difficult. Same thing every time....

[Always Moving]

Tha is great reasoning SCHOONER69, if it follow suit. With cars, trucks, boats,forklifts etc.
And why stop at navajos(cabin class twins) and not doing it all the way to J3.
Yes, you have to draw a line somewhere.
I just think they do not know how to paint......

[North Shore]

the best and most impossible solution would be to allow only colleges and universities to give training leading to a CPL, along with a selection process at the entrance level

If your motivation is the left seat in something really heavy that goes whoosh, then fine....but what about if your idea of a great job carries turkeys to lodges, or fish to plants, or drill rod to rigs? Engines that go 'rumpeta, rumpeta, rumpeta' rather than 'whiiiine.' (with the notable exceptions of the -3T and the -6) Where are the college courses in generator repair and fridge maintenance? How does an associate's degree in 'Airline Financial Management' help there?

[grouchy]

Hey Schooner perhaps you know how they became transferrable?
If they weren't wouldn't the checkers make more money?

[EI-EIO]

in my opinion the so-called professions (lawyers, doctors, teachers) are all about screwing the newbs and once those newbs become "professionals" after years of abasing themselves they then proceed to "do unto" the next generation...

[MCA]

north shore:
i went to one of those aviation colleges, and let me tell you there is nothing about financial management. the Float section is probably one of the best place to learn this particular type of flying in canada.
i believe that such schools are the way to go, and emphasis should be made toward it.