Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
-
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
415s aren't really made for ferrying. IIRC, when they delivered them to Europe in the early days, they went Gander to Azores - about 1500 nautical, and I don't think that they had bladder tanks installed. That's about max range. *If* you had bladders, and *if* you could get a ferry permit to up the gross wt, then you might be able to double that, and go around through Russia, etc...
I suspect that it might be simpler in the long run to shrink-wrap them and put them on a boat, just as Buffalo did.
WRT cycles, etc. I remember reading the crash report about the Herc that lost its wing in California a few years back. In the report it mentioned that fire ops were worth about 7:1 for hours flown. The Manitoba fleet of 215s (that I'm most familiar with) were 'retired' in favour of new 415s when the oldest ones had ~ 7,000hours on them (so, equivalent to 49,000 by the ratio above.) A rough cast through my logbook over the last 12 years gives me an average of 4.9 drops/hour (total drops made divided by total hours flown,) so that would place the cycles at ~34,000. Several had spar repairs due to cracking.
I suspect that it might be simpler in the long run to shrink-wrap them and put them on a boat, just as Buffalo did.
WRT cycles, etc. I remember reading the crash report about the Herc that lost its wing in California a few years back. In the report it mentioned that fire ops were worth about 7:1 for hours flown. The Manitoba fleet of 215s (that I'm most familiar with) were 'retired' in favour of new 415s when the oldest ones had ~ 7,000hours on them (so, equivalent to 49,000 by the ratio above.) A rough cast through my logbook over the last 12 years gives me an average of 4.9 drops/hour (total drops made divided by total hours flown,) so that would place the cycles at ~34,000. Several had spar repairs due to cracking.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
The ship idea is silly. Build a ship that will be used twice a year. What would make more sense would be a special barge, and contract the power to an offshore tugboat. Really, all this is a bunch if nonsense to help the struggling shipbuilding industry in Quebec. As long as these are turboprops and not radials, ferrying these with bladders is proven and easy. Lets keep it simple folks.
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
As I said before it isn't the right aircraft for the job given the geography - in a place like Australia it's go big or go home. They need jet tankers and possibly something like an Electra for the smaller jobs -- A lot of the fires have no place to scoop so land based operations except possibly salt . -- has anyone picked up water in the ocean.
Black air has no lift - extra fuel has no weight
http://www.blackair.ca
http://www.blackair.ca
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
Aren't there a bunch of Q400 tanker conversions? Maybe deHavilland can sell a bunch of new planes. As as been said, aren't many lakes in Australia for a scooper. Salt water on the coast is a no-go, 415s aren't like a Beaver you can rebuild every couple years to deal with corrosion.
-
- Rank 3
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:14 pm
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
Don’t the European CL415s scoop from the Mediterranean? Either that or there are some very large lakes I have not heard about in Spain, France, and Greece in videos of their 415s in action.
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
I’ve seen an ex-European 215 that lived a life of salt water. There are actual holes in the hull from corrosion, it’s amazing.goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 pm Salt water on the coast is a no-go, 415s aren't like a Beaver you can rebuild every couple years to deal with corrosion.
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
415’s can certainly scoop in the ocean. I’ve seen it done myself. Certainly not ideal but 100% can and is done.
- Driving Rain
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers
Australia is so concerned about wildfires they would like to rent tankers. If they were really concerned they'd buy them like the rest of the world. Makes me think wire was invented by two Aussi's fighting over a penny.