Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by North Shore »

415s aren't really made for ferrying. IIRC, when they delivered them to Europe in the early days, they went Gander to Azores - about 1500 nautical, and I don't think that they had bladder tanks installed. That's about max range. *If* you had bladders, and *if* you could get a ferry permit to up the gross wt, then you might be able to double that, and go around through Russia, etc...

I suspect that it might be simpler in the long run to shrink-wrap them and put them on a boat, just as Buffalo did.

WRT cycles, etc. I remember reading the crash report about the Herc that lost its wing in California a few years back. In the report it mentioned that fire ops were worth about 7:1 for hours flown. The Manitoba fleet of 215s (that I'm most familiar with) were 'retired' in favour of new 415s when the oldest ones had ~ 7,000hours on them (so, equivalent to 49,000 by the ratio above.) A rough cast through my logbook over the last 12 years gives me an average of 4.9 drops/hour (total drops made divided by total hours flown,) so that would place the cycles at ~34,000. Several had spar repairs due to cracking.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by Mick G »

The ship idea is silly. Build a ship that will be used twice a year. What would make more sense would be a special barge, and contract the power to an offshore tugboat. Really, all this is a bunch if nonsense to help the struggling shipbuilding industry in Quebec. As long as these are turboprops and not radials, ferrying these with bladders is proven and easy. Lets keep it simple folks.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by valleyboy »

As I said before it isn't the right aircraft for the job given the geography - in a place like Australia it's go big or go home. They need jet tankers and possibly something like an Electra for the smaller jobs -- A lot of the fires have no place to scoop so land based operations except possibly salt . -- has anyone picked up water in the ocean.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by Heliian »

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goingnowherefast
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by goingnowherefast »

Aren't there a bunch of Q400 tanker conversions? Maybe deHavilland can sell a bunch of new planes. As as been said, aren't many lakes in Australia for a scooper. Salt water on the coast is a no-go, 415s aren't like a Beaver you can rebuild every couple years to deal with corrosion.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by TailwheelPilot »

Don’t the European CL415s scoop from the Mediterranean? Either that or there are some very large lakes I have not heard about in Spain, France, and Greece in videos of their 415s in action.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by lownslow »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 pm Salt water on the coast is a no-go, 415s aren't like a Beaver you can rebuild every couple years to deal with corrosion.
I’ve seen an ex-European 215 that lived a life of salt water. There are actual holes in the hull from corrosion, it’s amazing.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by ant_321 »

415’s can certainly scoop in the ocean. I’ve seen it done myself. Certainly not ideal but 100% can and is done.
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Re: Proposal for Canada and Australia to share water bombers

Post by Driving Rain »

Australia is so concerned about wildfires they would like to rent tankers. If they were really concerned they'd buy them like the rest of the world. Makes me think wire was invented by two Aussi's fighting over a penny.
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