Boeing Update, for Air Canada Pilots — News and Views

[BTD]

The 320 series production is, pardon the pun, maxed out so even if AC wanted to go back to a all Airbus NB they are no slots available for several years.

Not true. Manufacturers always retain slots on the production line. Often through leasing companies to leverage other sales.

The sales pitch goes like this.

So you want a 321 eh? Sorry no slots until star date 20235. However we have retained some slots for customers purchasing 330/350’s. Can I interest you in one of those?

Case in point the Max order from Boeing. WestJet ordered the Max well before AC. The wait time was pushing 5 years. 35 787 orders? Imagine that suddenly 61 Max slots are available.

Yup.

And if the Transat deal goes through there is a handful of 321neos on order from them already. Not to mention 20 330s, some of which may need to be replaced in the not too distant future. We are already showing 17, 330s by end of 2021 on the annual report fleet page. Up from 8 2 years ago. After all that, a few 330 Neo’s to secure earlier slots for 320s is a possibility. Not to mention the 330s haven’t been selling great yet, airbus may want a few more on the order books. We also need to pick up some capacity for the 11 -9 Maxes we aren’t getting.

I don’t know what is going to happen, could go either way, but this is a possibility. I had heard rumours previous to this article.

[fish4life]

757 used to burn around 3600kg/hr (8000lbs/hr). The 321NEO burns around 6000lbs/hr.

757 had payload issues as well depending on whether it had the increased MGTOW supplement (250,000lbs vs 225,000lbs).

757-200 could be operated as a sardine can at 231 seats. Most operators flew it around at lower density seating configuration (see payload issues above). I used to see single class configurations of 211/217.

Assuming the 321XLR is operated at 200 seats, a range of 6 hours with passenger bags should be easily doable. This would be critical if destinations like Hawaii are being considered. However, if an operator wants to look at 7-9 hour routes then things may get complicated.

Boeing sadly refused all requests to restart 757 production. The 321XLR is a closer facsimile to the 757 than the MAX9/10 ever will be. Then there are the 737 braking issues, brake cooling, and turnaround times (main reason that AC converted MAX9 positions to MAX8).

Oh, and I doubt that you will ever see a 321XLR with a pogo stick attached.....

AC would be well served to continue the migration back to Airbus. The MAX selection over the NEO will be remembered as one of the less fortuitous fleet decisions.

the bag issue with the XLR isn't payload related it is space related, AT is running into issues with this with their 321LR's and the XLR's remove more pit space from baggage to add fuel.

[rudder]

I believe that Airbus had acknowledged this problem on the LR and has indicated that the extra fuel tanks will be repositioned on the XLR to maximize cargo space,

[Fanblade]

I believe that Airbus had acknowledged this problem on the LR and has indicated that the extra fuel tanks will be repositioned on the XLR to maximize cargo space,

Fuel tank going into the tail like the 330 I believe.

[rudder]

FWIW - I don’t believe that the XLR is optimal as an overseas aircraft (North Atlantic).

Flying back in a strong headwind it does not have the ability to operate at M.84-87 to reduce the block time impact and the extra 30-60 minutes of fuel burn might affect payload on longer stage lengths particularly if the aircraft is being operated in a high density seating configuration.

I see the XLR being optimized in a multi-class configuration on sub-7 hour stage lengths. Not sure where AC commercial would see it fitting in, particularly since there is no clarity yet on what the post TS merger entity will look like.

[co-joe]

...
They are getting rather square, however.

I guess square, or at least rather flat on one side anyway.

[Raymond Hall]

From Reuters:

Boeing scours idle 737 MAX plant for industrial snags

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Insiders note an “eerie” calm at Boeing Co’s (BA.N) 737 MAX factory, formerly a bustling hub that has helped fuel the aviation industry’s record growth over the last two decades.

Weeks after halting production of the 737 MAX, which has been grounded for almost a year over fatal crashes, Boeing is seizing on the lull to conduct an overhaul at its Seattle-area factory to curb inefficiency, improve quality and ease the plane’s re-entry to the market, four people familiar with the matter said.

Backed by engineers from roughly a dozen suppliers such as fuselage maker Spirit AeroSystems (SPR.N) and robot maker Electroimpact Inc, Boeing is fixing inventory management, upgrading automated tooling, and addressing “high-defect” areas, three of them said.

Boeing is also working to reduce instances where workers leave tools, rags and other debris inside jetliners as they build them, a problem at multiple Boeing factories. On Friday, Boeing said it found “foreign object debris” inside dozens of stored 737 MAX jets, and was investigating the cause.

A Boeing spokesman said the company was using this time to work closely with suppliers on a dozen initiatives to improve the overall health of its production system.

“The objective is to ensure a healthy and stable system that is ready for resuming production and increasing rates at the appropriate time,” the spokesman, Bernard Choi, said.

While Boeing has long said the Renton plant is already the most efficient in aviation, such longstanding problems were viewed as too risky to address during years of helter-skelter production to meet record jet demand.

======

‘HIGH-DEFECT’ AREAS

Part of the effort involves reducing “high-defect” areas, or situations where the quality of a part deviates from airline specifications - which can result in costly rework.

If the defect is bad enough to require changes, Boeing must flag that the airplane has been repaired and the airline customer pays less - akin to a discount for a scratch on a new car, one of the people said.

“Defects and rework are a big deal, they are extremely parasitic to factory efficiency and part quality,” he said. “Now they have the down time, so this is the time to deal with it.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKCN20I1A5

[goleafsgo]

If they did end up going airbus for more NB's, could they switch the Max's to rouge to avoid 3 NB types at mainline? Max at rouge and 320s and 220s at mainline?

[derateNO]

Honestly that makes the most sense. You can't turn the Max in any reasonable amount of time. Send it to all the vacation destinations where you don't need to turn it in 45 min and it solves a lot of problems.

Then bring all the 319/320/321 back to mainline and have two separate types on each OC.

[aerodude]

321XLR and 330NEO order would be perfect. Actually genius.

Start shifting flying to Transat with no crew training required, reduce mainline flying at higher pay.
Im sure ACPA will bend backwards, AC will eliminate rouge and in return allow separate seniority lists and the low payscales at TS. Ofcourse with a 10k signing bonus.

Can't wait for next recession boys and girls, I feel another FOS!!!!

[altiplano]

AC will want to extract gains from ACPA to wind up rouge, which they want to do anyway.

It did it's job, created the division with the pilots, and now it's just unnecessary costs.

Duplication of an entire structure is a waste, loss of flexibility costs them, with the new rules (pax and duty) they need everything working together. The mainline contract illegal duty days Rouge did are coming to an end by regulation this year. Delays and cancellations for crew shortages and an absent reserve are getting expensive with the new pax regs.

Despite this, ACPA will sell the farm to get rid of Rouge, but really the best thing they could do is just stay in home.

[derateNO]

If AC want's reserve at Rouge there's is a simple solution. We already have a contract that has reserve in it.

[altiplano]

If AC want's reserve at Rouge there's is a simple solution. We already have a contract that has reserve in it.

Right. That's what I'm saying, but they will come looking for concessions to get what they want anyway sand ACPA will fall for it.

[derateNO]

Well of course they will because everyone in ACPA and the nego committee is senior and doesn't give a shit about anyone but themselves and their future 777 CA position.

Maybe it's time everyone who's on flat pay donates their union dues to a charity until the committees that matter start bringing in young blood. No taxation without representation.

[Raymond Hall]

From today’s Wall Street Journal:

FAA Proposes Safety Fix for Another 737 MAX Production Lapse

Boeing says proposal isn’t expected to affect mid-2020 return for the grounded jets

The Federal Aviation Administration is mandating a new round of safety fixes before Boeing Co. BA -4.33% ’s 737 MAX jets can return to the air, this time targeting assembly-line lapses that could result in dual-engine power loss in the event of a lightning strike.

The proposed directive, posted Tuesday on the Federal Register’s website, would require inspecting and fixing a metallic lining that serves as a shield against lightning strikes for engine-control wiring. The FAA said cuts or tears in that aluminum-foil layer, located inside panels that cover engine attachments on the wings, could cause simultaneous loss of thrust in both engines.

The document immediately covers 128 737 MAX jets registered in the U.S., but the FAA said it is applicable to all MAX aircraft assembled so far because the entire fleet “may be affected by the identified unsafe condition.”

A Boeing spokesman said the lightning-protection issues aren’t expected to affect anticipated initial return of the planes around mid-2020. The FAA said it could take an estimated 12 hours of work for mechanics to check and repair the problem on each plane.

The move Tuesday comes after Boeing informed FAA officials that separate inspections have revealed more than two-thirds of undelivered MAX planes have some type of debris in their fuel tanks.

The FAA also is leaning toward requiring Boeing to relocate certain wiring bundles, some of which are located behind the cockpit and under the cabin floor, due to concerns that an electrical short circuit could result in potentially catastrophic flight-control difficulties that pilots would be unable to correct.

------

The hazard stemming from the damaged lightning-protection feature was first reported by the New York Times.

FAA officials recently have shifted part of their focus to delve into production shortcomings, after months working primarily to address design and pilot-training issues related to the MAX. The agency has said FAA inspectors will increase oversight of assembly-line practices after Boeing resumes MAX production.

The agency has said it intends to check the condition and safety compliance of each MAX airliner before permitting it to carry passengers, a change from past practice. Traditionally, the FAA has delegated such approvals to Boeing and intends to continue doing so for planes other than the MAX.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/faa-propos ... low_a_pos1

[sanjet]

ò

If AC want's reserve at Rouge there's is a simple solution. We already have a contract that has reserve in it.

AC doesn't give a crap about reserve. Its all about CASM.

[derateNO]

Yes, it's all related though with 2.5x draft and pilots making huge overtime checks.

[altiplano]

Well of course they will because everyone in ACPA and the nego committee is senior and doesn't give a shit about anyone but themselves and their future 777 CA position.

You are way off there. This isn't a seniority issue.

The problem is the reps from 3 out of the 4 bases and the minority that drive them because of the apathy of the rest. They hold the voting majority on the seats at the top. <40% of the pilots, most I will give the benefit of the to are possibly tuned out, with 6/11 of the say.

Can't believe the ones falling over themselves to congratulate the CEO yesterday, what an "icon" he was, how "great" he was, how "lucky" we are... fucking embarrassing sycophants. That's your problem right there.

[derateNO]

Ok fair enough.

There are a few people in there that I've been impressed with personally. But overall we need a paradigm shift. Also the hierarchy structure is broken within ACPA.

I literally LAUGHED out loud when that guy got up telling CR how amazing he was and iconic.

Like what the @#$!.

The whole road show was a giant propaganda fest, exactly like I expected it to be. The intro from CR going over the slides of how they did so well above what they expected was super tone deaf. So what you're telling me is all the concessions and ten year contract wasn't REALLY needed since at the end of the day everything was all peachy.

How can you tell it's a contract year (even if it's just an opener)? ROADSHOW!

[Raymond Hall]

From the Globe & Mail:

Transport Canada missed flaws on Boeing 737 Max before clearing it to fly

Transport Canada believed the Boeing 737 Max was safe when the government approved the new plane three years ago, but officials did not closely examine the aircraft’s flawed software before clearing it to fly.

“We felt that that aircraft was safe to fly in Canada,” said Nicholas Robinson, the government’s director-general of civil aviation. “I will say that we have a much greater understanding of some of the key concerns with this aircraft now.”

Mr. Robinson and other officials were testifying on the first day of federal hearings into Canada’s oversight of the 737 Max, two of which crashed in the span of five months, killing 346 people, including 18 Canadians. The hearings are examining Transport Canada’s methods for approving new planes, including a heavy reliance on analysis conducted by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration in the case of the Max.

“We have to pick and choose the areas that we will review,” David Turnbull, Transport Canada’s national aircraft certification director, told the hearings. “It so happened that [the software] was not an area that we delved into in any great depth.

“This is the way, unfortunately, sometimes we learn," he said. “I can assure you if we had any of that knowledge at the time, we would have been digging a lot further."

It was a rare acknowledgement by the regulator that its oversight of the Max was flawed, and that Canada was unaware its system hindered regulators from seeing the aircraft’s deadly problems. One of the new planes crashed in late 2018 in Indonesia, and another in Ethiopia five months later. In both cases, software known as the manoeuvring characteristics augmentation system, or MCAS, designed to stabilize the plane during flight, instead put the aircraft into a deadly nosedive the pilots could not counteract.

Article continues…

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-it-to/