Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

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NotDirty!
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by NotDirty! »

'97 Tercel wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:17 pm
Return button, spacebar, indents, anything! Help me, help you, help me read that...
Hows this?
Right
now
the
Air
Transat
division
of
Group
Transat
is
completely
shutdown.
A prolonged
shutdown will
result in a restart
that will be logistically
and financially challenging.
Other than the 310s all other
aspects of flt ops; fleet leases,
crew and support staff are liabilities.(
Hence 100% crew lay-off) It also bears
mentioning that this recovery will be slow
as well as unpredictable. Don’t kid yourself
either for those that think leisure markets will
rebound quickly. Leisure will most likely be even
slower and more unpredictable since disposable
income used for leisure travel will not be available
for some time as people divert this income to try and
recover from lost income levels and maxed out debt loads.
Maxed out credit cards, lines of credit and deferred payment
catch up payments will take priority and eat up much of household
disposable income for the next year. This years summer season for leisure
travel is probably a complete right off. When operations finally come back
online there will still be excess capacity in the industry with labour and lift despite
the collapses that will be inevitable and new duty regs. JME knows this and will do anything
to make sure this deal goes through so he can check out and enjoy retirement(already
tried to retire once in 2012) as fast a possible before the ship goes completely
under. He does not want to restart this process and he does not want to
go it alone so this deal is the only option. Transat is hemorrhaging cash
badly and he/we all know it. Trust me he did not stay in this game
for 30 years by being stupid or ignorant. I’m sure he is looking
at all options to make sure his life’s work does not get
totally flushed down the toilet. Transat will
survive in some form. What form that
will take will depends on what
CR and JME decide it will be.
Having both AC and TS
flying around
airplanes
at
50-60
percent
LF is not
sustainable.
Also every airline
CEO also knows the
headache we pilots
can be when it comes
to merged seniority lists.
If CR sees this as an opportunity
to eliminate multiple problems by
one single act you can be assured he
is seriously considering that. CR won’t
hesitate to propose an agreement with
JME to permanently shut down flt ops, return
leases, cancel/sell positions on orders, sell/lease
hangers, and terminate all staff. This all done under
a guaranteed capacity purchase arrangement for Group
Transat to have easy cost effective access to lift to get travellers
to the hotels where Transat makes its money. ACs current network and
future excess capacity when this is over can absorb the Transat passengers
at no additional cost to AC of running another airline. This will also keep relations
with ACPA on an even keel and score plenty of goodwill points with a much larger labour
group. As for the ALPA Transat collective agreement, it’s protections and benefits will
be worthless if the bargaining unit ceases to exist unfortunately. So much for recall
rights. Ask GM Oshawa workers how that worked out. According to labour
laws the purchasing enterprise has no obligation to former employees
that are on terminated status. The best that can be hoped for
is the Flt ops department does not permanently shut down
and all staff terminated. Gilles theory sadly has legs.
Remember JME is a tour operator not a an airline
exec as he likes to remind us all. He never
wanted an airline and he has no love for
pilots either. To save the deal he
would not hesitate to flush
everyone he could to fill
his pockets and tell
everyone you can
go apply at Air
Canada when
they start
hiring
again
in
2
years.
Or

Code: Select all

RightnowtheAirTransatdivisionofGroupTransatiscompletelyshutdown.Aprolongedshutdownwillresultinarestartthatwillbelogisticallyandfinanciallychallenging.Otherthanthe310sallotheraspectsoffltops;fleetleases,crewandsupportstaffareliabilities.(Hence100%crewlay-off)Italsobearsmentioningthatthisrecoverywillbeslowaswellasunpredictable.Don’tkidyourselfeitherforthosethatthinkleisuremarketswillreboundquickly.Leisurewillmostlikelybeevenslowerandmoreunpredictablesincedisposableincomeusedforleisuretravelwillnotbeavailableforsometimeaspeopledivertthisincometotryandrecoverfromlostincomelevelsandmaxedoutdebtloads.Maxedoutcreditcards,linesofcreditanddeferredpaymentcatchuppaymentswilltakepriorityandeatupmuchofhouseholddisposableincomeforthenextyear.Thisyearssummerseasonforleisuretravelisprobablyacompleterightoff.Whenoperationsfinallycomebackonlinetherewillstillbeexcesscapacityintheindustrywithlabourandliftdespitethecollapsesthatwillbeinevitableandnewdutyregs.JMEknowsthisandwilldoanythingtomakesurethisdealgoesthroughsohecancheckoutandenjoyretirement(alreadytriedtoretireoncein2012)asfastapossiblebeforetheshipgoescompletelyunder.Hedoesnotwanttorestartthisprocessandhedoesnotwanttogoitalonesothisdealistheonlyoption.Transatishemorrhagingcashbadlyandhe/weallknowit.Trustmehedidnotstayinthisgamefor30yearsbybeingstupidorignorant.I’msureheislookingatalloptionstomakesurehislife’sworkdoesnotgettotallyflusheddownthetoilet.Transatwillsurviveinsomeform.WhatformthatwilltakewilldependsonwhatCRandJMEdecideitwillbe.HavingbothACandTSflyingaroundairplanesat50-60percentLFisnotsustainable.AlsoeveryairlineCEOalsoknowstheheadachewepilotscanbewhenitcomestomergedsenioritylists.IfCRseesthisasanopportunitytoeliminatemultipleproblemsbyonesingleactyoucanbeassuredheisseriouslyconsideringthat.CRwon’thesitatetoproposeanagreementwithJMEtopermanentlyshutdownfltops,returnleases,cancel/sellpositionsonorders,sell/leasehangers,andterminateallstaff.ThisalldoneunderaguaranteedcapacitypurchasearrangementforGroupTransattohaveeasycosteffectiveaccesstolifttogettravellerstothehotelswhereTransatmakesitsmoney.ACscurrentnetworkandfutureexcesscapacitywhenthisisovercanabsorbtheTransatpassengersatnoadditionalcosttoACofrunninganotherairline.ThiswillalsokeeprelationswithACPAonanevenkeelandscoreplentyofgoodwillpointswithamuchlargerlabourgroup.AsfortheALPATransatcollectiveagreement,it’sprotectionsandbenefitswillbeworthlessifthebargainingunitceasestoexistunfortunately.Somuchforrecallrights.AskGMOshawaworkershowthatworkedout.Accordingtolabourlawsthepurchasingenterprisehasnoobligationtoformeremployeesthatareonterminatedstatus.ThebestthatcanbehopedforistheFltopsdepartmentdoesnotpermanentlyshutdownandallstaffterminated.Gillestheorysadlyhaslegs.RememberJMEisatouroperatornotaanairlineexecashelikestoremindusall.Heneverwantedanairlineandhehasnoloveforpilotseither.TosavethedealhewouldnothesitatetoflusheveryonehecouldtofillhispocketsandtelleveryoneyoucangoapplyatAirCanadawhentheystarthiringagainin2years.
You’re welcome.
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Tealcowboy
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Tealcowboy »

Wow, you are literally an idiot.
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lownslow
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by lownslow »

Tealcowboy wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:41 am Wow, you are literally an idiot.
It’s like the haiku from hell.
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goldeneagle
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by goldeneagle »

'97 Tercel wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:17 pm Return button, spacebar, indents, anything! Help me, help you, help me read that...
Trouble reading fine print ?? Must be a pilot.....
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Localizer
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

I doubt that lawsuit has any legs now ... I personally think a voucher for the equivalent amount is fair, but that’s me.

http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5524899
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

https://ca.travelpulse.com/news/airline ... rkers.html

The way I see it: Colin R. talked to the government and got a taste of the final decision regarding the purchase of AT; but he’s been asked to complete the deal to assure the future of AT. First step is to cancel the layoffs so it will help to justify to the public the purchase that will be released in the news next week. Then the gov will make the announcement regarding the financial help for the airline industry. Everybody will be happy.
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FL-280
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL-280 »

I think the company is in crisis mode and not everything is about ac saving ts.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

FL-280 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:43 am I think the company is in crisis mode and not everything is about ac saving ts.
I understand but the only airline that will never be let down by the gov is AC; it’s not fair play.
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FL-280
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL-280 »

AC pilots are the only pilot group in Canada with no right to strike, deemed essential service and forced collective agreements by the government. That isnt fair either, life is bi...
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

FL320 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:48 am
FL-280 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:43 am I think the company is in crisis mode and not everything is about ac saving ts.
I understand but the only airline that will never be let down by the gov is AC; it’s not fair play.
What is stopping TS from my applying for CEWS? Or SWG?

They will have to cancel the layoffs and keep staff on payroll. My guess is they will do the math and figure out that it does not work for pilots due average monthly pay. Perhaps TS/SWG Pilots will have to look at worksharing (i.e. 50-55 hours per month) to make the math work.

CR is not only smart but he is a player. Well connected. Never underestimate him.
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FL320
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by FL320 »

What is stopping TS from my applying for CEWS? Or SWG?
I have no idea but as an outsider I must admit that AC’s decision make me believe it’s a great employer.
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47north
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 47north »

FL-280 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:57 am AC pilots are the only pilot group in Canada with no right to strike, deemed essential service and forced collective agreements by the government. That isnt fair either, life is bi...
Not true. Jazz pilots were deemed essential the last time a strike was imminent too.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

47north wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:16 am
FL-280 wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:57 am AC pilots are the only pilot group in Canada with no right to strike, deemed essential service and forced collective agreements by the government. That isnt fair either, life is bi...
Not true. Jazz pilots were deemed essential the last time a strike was imminent too.
WJ/Encore would have received the same treatment courtesy of the Feds when load factors were 85%+. That was the reality.

Now, all bets are off.
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98 Corolla
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by 98 Corolla »

The government wage subsidy being applied at Air Canada has nothing to do with the Transat deal. It's been offered to every company in Canada that has lost revenues. You'd have to be pure evil to keep your employees laid off when the government is offering free money to pay their wages.
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rudder
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by rudder »

98 Corolla wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:24 am The government wage subsidy being applied at Air Canada has nothing to do with the Transat deal. It's been offered to every company in Canada that has lost revenues. You'd have to be pure evil to keep your employees laid off when the government is offering free money to pay their wages.
Tread carefully on that.

AC is not a charity. It is certain that AC has received interpretations of the CEWS program and then done the math to determine it will either break even or come out ahead by cancelling layoffs, at least until June 06 (after which there will be extreme pressure on JT to extend CEWS for ALL employers).

Problem for companies like TS or SWG is the math for keeping $10-15k/month pilots on staff in exchange for an $850/week subsidy does not work.

At a minimum, each employer should be evaluating this program. And those that have unionized employee groups would need input and participation from those organizations.

Reality is that TRZ and SWG are travel operators that happen to own air carrier subsidiaries. They are not airlines. And that segment of the business is looking at a protracted lack of demand. This potential reprieve may not change the final outcome.
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Localizer
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

A lot of pilot groups are deemed essential services .. AC is not special in that regard.
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Hangry
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Hangry »

Localizer wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:33 am A lot of pilot groups are deemed essential services .. AC is not special in that regard.
That’s just plain wrong.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by goldeneagle »

98 Corolla wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:24 am You'd have to be pure evil to keep your employees laid off when the government is offering free money to pay their wages.
Not really, it's basic arithmetic. The subsidy has a cap at 8 hundred and change a week. If you bring back a union person that has a wage double or triple that amount, you have to pay them the union rate, so it's going to be very expensive to keep them on payroll as the subsidy only makes a partial dent in the wage. On the other hand, if you have a stack of employees that make that amount or less, then by all means, keep them off of the unemployment rolls. Ultimately it's the same money, from the same pot, just doled out thru company payroll instead of the UI system.
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BTD
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by BTD »

goldeneagle wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:34 am
98 Corolla wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:24 am You'd have to be pure evil to keep your employees laid off when the government is offering free money to pay their wages.
Not really, it's basic arithmetic. The subsidy has a cap at 8 hundred and change a week. If you bring back a union person that has a wage double or triple that amount, you have to pay them the union rate, so it's going to be very expensive to keep them on payroll as the subsidy only makes a partial dent in the wage. On the other hand, if you have a stack of employees that make that amount or less, then by all means, keep them off of the unemployment rolls. Ultimately it's the same money, from the same pot, just doled out thru company payroll instead of the UI system.
It isn’t a requirement of the plan (CEWS) to pay the employees full wages. It is encouraged though. And for most in our group, the CEWS will be greater then EI. So that would be a better position for the individual. As for union employees, the union can negotiate a MOA for a temporary reduction in pay, to amend their collective agreement.
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Re: Air Canada and Transat announce Increased Purchase Price to $18 per Share

Post by Localizer »

A lot of pilot groups are deemed essential services .. AC is not special in that regard.

Hangry wrote:
That’s just plain wrong.
I guess you're right because you said so?

There are a lot of pilot groups under ALPA that are deemed essential .. Off the top of my head, First Air (Canadian North), Wasaya, and Perimeter because of the communities they serve. But .. you're right .. :prayer:
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