Coronavirus Numbers

[altiplano]

Apparently doctors and nurses are being asked to link all possible covid deaths to the virus.

This is the kind of outright bullshit that one person dreams up, 10 more repeat, and eventually everybody takes it as a fact.

Just an fyi, nurses do not determine cause of death, that's up to a doctor signing the death certificate. Docs that fib on that are putting license to practice medicine at risk by doing so.

You need to go back to flying airplanes, or to quote your own favorite saying 'STAY IN YOUR OWN FUCKING LANE'.

Blow me. I know what I heard. 1 rad, 1 nurse. 2 different provinces.

[Jimmyh787]

I hope this video helps resolve the dispute. Describes the process quite clearly.

[YouTube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYUExBc1ijU[/YouTube]

[Rockie]

You know what a gross navigational check is Altiplano. Time to lean back, take a good look around and ask yourself if what you’ve been told makes the slightest damn bit of sense.

['97 Tercel]

Hahaha...like anyone here really knows anything about the virus...

We're all such intransigent, type 'A' know-it-all's in this industry.

......................^ (thanks for my new fav word Fanblade)

[Eric Janson]

The apocalyptic fear-mongering and breathless conspiratorial hints of your comments is beneath you. You're playing to the Zerohedge crowd. I understand the seductive appeal of such theories reducing complicated things into simple binary solutions, it's the foundation of pretty much all social media and resulting polarization of politics and society. But I didn't really expect it from an airline pilot, a profession I perhaps incorrectly, tend to hold to a higher standard of critical thought.

If you want a fascinating series about money try "The Ascent of Money" by Niall Ferguson - the BBC doc, not the book. It'll give you some context on the ever-popular mythology surrounding the Rothschilds. It's no secret there are ultra-rich families and conglomerates that exert disproportionate influence around the globe. Canada itself is basically a country founded by robber barons whose descendants and successors continue to run it today. And...? Human nature is not a conspiracy.

The BoC is separate from the "Government" as a Crown corporation by intent, as an attempt to reduce political meddling in economic policy. Same as the US Federal Reserve. The central banks set economic policy, the politicians set fiscal policy. How effective that separation is, you can decide for yourself. It certainly helps to have strong leadership, I happen to think the last truly brilliant governor was David Dodge.

If you're going to predict a possible "collapse of the entire Financial System", you're going to have to define what you mean by that term. It's generic to the point of being meaningless. We were far closer to a collapse in 2008 with a near-total seizure of liquidity. THAT was a "Financial System" crisis. The coronavirus is a medical/health crisis, which is a crucial difference. Of course it is having massive economic consequences, idling much of the world's economy. It's certainly highlighted the weaknesses of globalization with regards to supply chains (particular the folly of relying heavily on a totalitarian regime for many vital supplies), but that same coordination of global central banks is ironically probably the best defence against said "collapse".

I'm not downplaying the economic seriousness of coronavirus. But an outlook that only predicts failure is not balanced.

@Complexintentions

You're reading an awful lot into my post.

The intention was to provide education for people that wanted to learn more with a few simple starting points.

- We do have a debt based monetary system.
- Banks operate using Fractional Reserve Banking.
- The Bank of Canada is a private banking cartel (as are all Central Banks).
- The Rothschilds are an interesting family to research. I made no claims about them.

All of the above is factual information - not sure where the "breathless conspiratorial hints of your comments" are.

I encourage people to do their own research and learn to think for themselves instead being told what to think.

I appreciate the Niall Ferguson info - I'll certainly be watching that.

I don't agree that things were worse in 2008. I don't recall the entire Aviation Industry collapsing and negative oil prices back then. The current situation is unprecedented and Government isn't going to be able to continue wage subsidies indefinitely. Increasing numbers of Airlines are not planning any large scale resumption of service until 2021.

[YYZSaabGuy]

The intention was to provide education for people that wanted to learn more with a few simple starting points.

- We do have a debt based monetary system.
- Banks operate using Fractional Reserve Banking.
- The Bank of Canada is a private banking cartel (as are all Central Banks).

Well:
1. I'm not sure what you mean by a "debt based monetary system", but the reality is that all monetary systems are debt-based. I'm not sure what the alternative is, unless you want to spend your life walking around with gold bars in your pocket to pay for stuff.
2. Fractional reserve banking is in widespread use because nobody has come up with a decent alternative. Full reserve banking means that banks retain 100% of depositors' money on hand, ready for immediate withdrawal on demand. Which is terrific, unless you're looking to fund any project or expenditure on other than a demand basis, i.e. over longer than a 24-hour timeframe. Good luck buying a car, or a house, or running a business.
3. The Bank of Canada is not a "private banking cartel that controls the money in Canada", whatever that means. It's a Crown Corporation, with a Governor and Senior Deputy Governor appointed by the independent directors with the approval of the federal Cabinet for a seven-year term to allow for a level of independence from the politicians and to "...adopt the medium- and longer-term perspective essential to conducting effective monetary policy." https://www.bankofcanada.ca/about/

Despite what certain conspiracy-oriented websites would have you believe, this is all pretty standard and well-accepted stuff, and it seems to work reasonably well. But, like you, I encourage people to do their own research and learn to think for themselves instead being told what to think.

[2R]

Chewing through the mega data about this crisis to get to the cause will require several super computers just to get the data that is relevant. The Brits have chucked out the data from China as it is not reliable or to be trusted.
Basic Garbage in , Garbage out statistics .

The original virus , blood and tissue samples were destroyed which is highly suspicious ,if true . Looks worse when you consider that lab that was acquiring and storing nasty virus's and pathogens from all over the world . For them to destroy the first samples does not look good for them. At best it is bad scientific protacol , at worst it is covering up a criminal act . By whom ? A mad criminal scientist ?

Looking in my crystal ball , I cannot see their future .

[RippleRock]

According to current data updated daily.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/canada/


Active Cases in Canada as of April 27th.
27,612
Currently Infected Patients
27,055 (98%)
in Mild Condition

557 (2%)
Serious or Critical

Deaths per million in Canada = 72

The statistics show that the entire population has experienced a death rate of 1 to 0.000072 or .0072%

Given that the demographic on the victims, with the vast majority over 65, the chances of the young or healthy dying are----you figure it out---- but you would be wasting your time.

Continue the hysteria if you like.

[Rockie]

The only panic and hysteria I see is from people like you, when what’s desperately needed here is patience, careful planning and adequate preparation. In an open society this thing grew from nothing to a pandemic in a few short months. What do you think it’ll do with the head start it has now if we aren’t exceedingly careful?

[2R]

What would the numbers have been without the pandemic precautions and quarantine ?

Lift the lockdowns too soon and we can party like it's is Marseille in 1720 .

Quarantine is the only effective tool that has historically worked for plagues that have no cure or vaccines .

Sorry ,
Rockie but I have to agree with you ( today only buddy )

[Rockie]

No problem 2R, I won’t hold you to it in the future.

[Fanblade]

What would the numbers have been without the pandemic precautions and quarantine ?

Lift the lockdowns too soon and we can party like it's is Marseille in 1720 .

Quarantine is the only effective tool that has historically worked for plagues that have no cure or vaccines .

Sorry ,
Rockie but I have to agree with you ( today only buddy )

Ripple Rock aside. It’s not like anyone disagrees with Rockie. Ugg did I say that out loud. The problem is what if there is no vaccine? There are many MD’s that believe a vaccine is unlikely. We have never been successful in producing a corona vaccine. This will be a first if we accomplish it. Corona virus’s also mutate quickly. Next fall people who already have had Covid will probably not be immune to the mutated version. Nor will a vaccine likely keep up with mutations. Plus corona vaccines we have come up with to date have had very sever immune reactions. Dangerously so.

The good news is that Corona virus’s become less virulent as they mutate. Over time we get partial immunity for versions we catch. Eventually Covid will become a common cold. This is the usual/normal path of a corona virus.

So this is the what if. We are not used to this in our world of modern medicine. We are having trouble accepting that we might not be able to do anything about this. If there isn’t a vaccine, the solution becomes to manage the virus through the population at a controlled rate. As it moves through the population immunity will develop and Covid will become less virulent as it mutates. Yes people will die.

This is where much of the difference of opinion comes from medical professionals. If there is no vaccine and we shelter in place we will only delay the inevitable. You don’t stop it.

Clearly if a vaccine can be 1) produced, 2) Safe, and 3)Doesn’t get quickly rendered useless through mutations, then it would be the preferred choice. If 1 or 2 or 3 become futile then we have no choice but to allow Covid to take its natural course. Yes that means a high mortality rate for a few years.

This is a very real possibility. Some health professionals like the two doctors on the other page are already there. Most aren’t. At least not yet. But don’t kid yourself. No vaccine is a very real possibility. Time will tell if our good intentioned intervention through shelter in place was misguided. If this turns out to be the case we will have to start relaxing the rules in an effort to manage the spread of the virus.

All of us waiting for our turn.

I have learned that Doctors are like pilots. Ask 100 of them their opinion on this and they will all respond differently. They will all be right too.

Fact is they are just shooting from the hip. They don’t know either.

[RippleRock]

The only panic and hysteria I see is from people like you, when what’s desperately needed here is patience, careful planning and adequate preparation. In an open society this thing grew from nothing to a pandemic in a few short months. What do you think it’ll do with the head start it has now if we aren’t exceedingly careful?

Yes, I'm hysterical.

If quoting and believing real statistical facts has made me so, perhaps we should modify the definition a bit to encompass it.

Let's continue to treat it like a worldwide outbreak of Ebola, German Measles, Smallpox, Polio or the Bubonic Plague if it makes everyone sleep better.

[North Shore]

I have learned that Doctors are like pilots. Ask 100 of them their opinion on this and they will all respond differently. They will all be right too.

Fact is they are just shooting from the hip. They don’t know either.

At least their opinion is formed by several years of intense education on the subject, unlike ours here...

[Rockie]

It’s not like anyone disagrees with Rockie. Ugg did I say that out loud.

You did and now it’s too late, I’m getting all teary.

[RippleRock]

All you epidemiologists and virologists on here can continue to throw solutions and opinions around.

I'm just a pilot, so I have a fairly serious "addiction" to facts and numbers as they have the least propensity to lie and misleed. It will be curious to look back in hindsight once this passes.

Once the --overall mortality rate-- as a percentage of the total population approaches something remotely "statistically relevant" (around one quarter of 1% overall), I'll come back and apologize. I promise.



(for the record we are at 1% of 1/4 of 1%, so once 99x the current number that have passed on Worldwide due to Covid-19, I'll apologize)

[The Raven]

According to the radio yesterday Canada is spending $330,000,000 (that’s $330 million) per COVID-19 death. According to my calculations that’s over $800 billion. Not to put a price on a COVID-19 death, but imagine the number of hospitals, nursing homes, clinics, etc that could be built with $800 billion. Not to mention the money that could be spent on cancer care. Imagine the number of lives that could be saved.

[digits_]

According to the radio yesterday Canada is spending $330,000,000 (that’s $330 million) per COVID-19 death. According to my calculations that’s over $800 billion. Not to put a price on a COVID-19 death, but imagine the number of hospitals, nursing homes, clinics, etc that could be built with $800 billion. Not to mention the money that could be spent on cancer care. Imagine the number of lives that could be saved.

How did they end up with that number? Sounds like some creative accounting was involved.

[RippleRock]

Why don't we buy the Oasis of the Seas and the Sovereign of the Seas (we'd get a smokin' deal) dock them both in Coal Harbour, Vancouver as a quarantine refuge? Admission would be by a positive diagnosis. Check out when you're clear. Personal private jet service to and from your home.

We could cater it with only the finest luxuries, personal attendants, Covid cleared entertainers, a hundred or so Doctors each ship, a thousand nurses each ship, with three thousand individual ventilators per. Easily finance the whole affair with the money we've already said goodbye to.

Even if we did it now, we would still be tens of BILLIONS ahead.

Yes, an insane idea, but its easily as insane as what I watched at Home Depot today....home and garden renovators bumping and brushing by one other like ants in a kicked anthill. Similar experience seen at Walmart. This "lockdown + stay at home order" is a f'ing joke. People are treating it as barely a suggestion.

[The Raven]

According to the radio yesterday Canada is spending $330,000,000 (that’s $330 million) per COVID-19 death. According to my calculations that’s over $800 billion. Not to put a price on a COVID-19 death, but imagine the number of hospitals, nursing homes, clinics, etc that could be built with $800 billion. Not to mention the money that could be spent on cancer care. Imagine the number of lives that could be saved.

How did they end up with that number? Sounds like some creative accounting was involved.

According to todays’s Globe and Mail: Inside the Negotiation of Canada’s Supersized Coronavirus Bailout

As of this week, the federal package has skyrocketed to $145-billion in direct support to workers and families, $85-billion in tax deferrals for individuals and businesses, and $586-billion in credit, liquidity and capital relief. The Liberal government, which already faced accusations of overspending during periods of economic growth, is heading to a deficit in the range of $200-billion.

[Rockie]

So Raven, as Prime Minister for a day how would you have handled the massive deaths, utter collapse of the medical system and likely inevitable collapse of the economy? Do you think society would just continue on its merry way not noticing or sweating the fact everybody is getting sick and all the old people are suddenly, you know...dead?

[The Raven]

So Raven, as Prime Minister for a day how would you have handled the massive deaths, utter collapse of the medical system and likely inevitable collapse of the economy? Do you think society would just continue on its merry way not noticing or sweating the fact everybody is getting sick and all the old people are suddenly, you know...dead?

I would have supported the hospital and nursing homes without shutting down the economy. As it stands now, our children and grandchildren will be paying for the actions this government has taken. $800,000,000,000, would have built a lot of hospitals.

[rxl]

Numbers from the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer -

https://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/en/covid-19

Appears that we are headed for a budgetary deficit of 5.2% of GDP. Similar to 1992-93 levels.
DEBT/GDP ratio projected at 38.1%. In 1995-96 debt was two-thirds of GDP.
Interesting to note that in 1946 just after WWII, our DEBT/GDP was 108.6%.

[RippleRock]

So Raven, as Prime Minister for a day how would you have handled the massive deaths, utter collapse of the medical system and likely inevitable collapse of the economy? Do you think society would just continue on its merry way not noticing or sweating the fact everybody is getting sick and all the old people are suddenly, you know...dead?

Been watching a few too many disaster movies? Massive deaths? Utter collapse of the medical system?


Half of the population wouldn't likely have even gotten it at all as "herd immunity" would have probably happened within six weeks. A quarter would likely have gotten it, but been nearly asymptomatic, showing no symptoms at all. The last quarter would have encompassed all those who got sick and showed symptoms. According to the data 80% of them would have been sent home with a sick note from the doctor. We'd have seen a tenfold increase in the number of people calling in sick maybe. Just my "hysterical" view.

This ---ISN'T--- Ebola, or Smallpox.
Humanity is in no danger of disappearing, even if the handling of this was completely botched in every country.

[Rockie]

[quote=Rockie post_id=<a href="tel:1114666">1114666</a> time=<a href="tel:1588041377">1588041377</a> user_id=5632]
So Raven, as Prime Minister for a day how would you have handled the massive deaths, utter collapse of the medical system and likely inevitable collapse of the economy? Do you think society would just continue on its merry way not noticing or sweating the fact everybody is getting sick and all the old people are suddenly, you know...dead?

I would have supported the hospital and nursing homes without shutting down the economy. As it stands now, our children and grandchildren will be paying for the actions this government has taken. $800,000,000,000, would have built a lot of hospitals.
[/quote]

Supporting hospitals and nursing homes is being done to the best of society’s ability now and still look what’s happening. How do you isolate the vulnerable from Covid 19 when everybody else has it? You would be willingly sacrificing them and clearly (thankfully) Canadians are not prepared to do that.

In the US where their response is late and incompetent they have 1/3 of the worldwide cases and over 1/4 of the deaths, and those ratios are climbing. They only have 4.25% of the population. In Canada that would not be tolerated.