Air Transat Ferry flights

[Gilles Hudicourt]

On May 6th 2020, an Air Transat A321, C-FTXU, was flown from Toronto to Ljubljana, Slovenia, with a fluel stop in Keflavik, likely to be returned to its owner or delivered to its new lessee.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFTXU

It was still registered in Canada to Air Transat.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... chHs.aspx

There are no Air Transat pilots on payroll, we are all laid off. Who flew this aircraft ? Our Collective Agreement, of course, clearly states that only Air Transat pilots can fly Air Transat Aircraft. This clause is the foundation of all the Collective agreements in this industry.

I hope they were not Air Canada pilots. This could lead to a big stink.......

[Cavalier44]

I know that in the case of Sunwing, certain members of the management within the Flight Ops department remain on the payroll despite the remainder of the pilots being laid off, i.e. VPFO, DFO, CP, etc. as well as several of the senior managers within the training department. I believe some of these individuals have been involved in ferrying aircraft for storage, perhaps this is also the case with Transat?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Thank you, but they were not Transat pilots, management or otherwise......

[mbav8r]

Thank you, but they were not Transat pilots, management or otherwise......

How do you know?
To keep your AOC, you need a CP and Ops Manager, are they not current on type?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

To keep your AOC, you need a CP and Ops Manager, are they not current on type?

Air Transat has on staff a VP-Ops, a Director of Flight Ops and 3 CPs. All of which are pilots. None of these people ferried the aircraft.

[tdp19]

Maybe it was one of the airplanes that were being returned to a lessor and it was flown back by contract pilots contracted by the leasing company...

[rudder]

Gilles,

In the normal course of business, were there any TS operated aircraft that were planned to be returned or at least revert to a European operator for the summer season? Has TRZ announced that it has terminated any leases?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Maybe it was one of the airplanes that were being returned to a lessor and it was flown back by contract pilots contracted by the leasing company...

Perhaps, but it was flown out as an Air Transat registered aircraft, on the AT OC.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles,

In the normal course of business, were there any TS operated aircraft that were planned to be returned or at least revert to a European operator for the summer season? Has TRZ announced that it has terminated any leases?

They have not announced anything. But some aircraft, including this one, were short term leases, that were supposed to be leased from Thomas Cook just for the winter and returned to them in the Spring.
They in exchange, would dry-lease some our extra A-330s for the winter.
Of course, Thomas Cook has since vanished.

Air Transat has some A321 CEOs that are long term leases, and some A321s CEOs that are short term leases for just the winter season.

The A321NEOs are all long term leases.

[FL320]

What about this:

We are not « laid off » because we are still on the payroll thanks to the CEWS. Any of our A321 pilots can fly the A321?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

What about this:

We are not « laid off » because we are still on the payroll thanks to the CEWS. Any of our A321 pilots can fly the A321?

That is one way of looking at it. But then why did outsiders fly it ?

[goldeneagle]

That is one way of looking at it. But then why did outsiders fly it ?

Going back to it's owners, and maybe nobody at Transat knew it was going....

[98 Corolla]

I agree this sounds like a repo job.

[telex]

Provide proof it was flown under the AT OC.

[ahramin]

If it was not under the OC, how did they get into RVSM airspace? There's so little traffic out there today, maybe they just phoned each FIR and got approval? What about MNPS?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

There is another one leaving YYZ tonight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFT ... /CYYZ/BIKF

[GoinVertical]

Why don't you just call your union reps and have your MEC file a grievance?

[Daniel Cooper]

Handcuff yourself to the sidestick!

[altiplano]

If it was not under the OC, how did they get into RVSM airspace? There's so little traffic out there today, maybe they just phoned each FIR and got approval? What about MNPS?

I'm sure lease companies have arrangements when they have to move aircraft. Why wouldn't they be allowed in RVSM/MNPS?

[boeingboy]

I think your making this more than it is Gilles.

The last one (TXU) was exported to Austria, back to either the leasing company or the new operator. Just because it was Canadian registered doesn't mean anything. The C of R does not prove title to the aircraft and in fact it was de-registered the next day. Canadian companies can operate foreign registered aircraft in Canada for certain periods of time and vise versa.

Aircraft transactions both private and commercial are done this way all the time - where the registered owner is not necessarily the operator. The aircraft would simply be flown by the owner, contract company or new lease holder.

But - If you are worried about it....just bring it up to the union.

[telex]

If it was not under the OC, how did they get into RVSM airspace? There's so little traffic out there today, maybe they just phoned each FIR and got approval? What about MNPS?

Maybe I missed the requirement to operate under AT OC for RVSM?

An operator shall ensure that aeroplanes operated in RVSM airspace are equipped with:
Two independent altitude measurement systems;
An altitude alerting system;
An automatic altitude control system; and
A secondary surveillance radar (SSR) transponder with altitude reporting system that can be connected to the altitude measurement system in use for altitude keeping. (IR-OPS SPA.RVSM.110, EU-OPS 1.872)

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I think your making this more than it is Gilles.

The last one (TXU) was exported to Austria, back to either the leasing company or the new operator. Just because it was Canadian registered doesn't mean anything. The C of R does not prove title to the aircraft and in fact it was de-registered the next day. Canadian companies can operate foreign registered aircraft in Canada for certain periods of time and vise versa.

Aircraft transactions both private and commercial are done this way all the time - where the registered owner is not necessarily the operator. The aircraft would simply be flown by the owner, contract company or new lease holder.

But - If you are worried about it....just bring it up to the union.

For a commercial aircraft to be flown, it must have an operator and it must be dispatched by the operator's dispatcher.

If the flight plan to this aircraft was supplied to ATC by Air Transat Dispatch, its an Air Transat Flight flown under the TSC Certificate. In which case Air Transat pilot must fly it.

Even for ferry and delivery flights, such as aircraft being exported, there is a chapter in the Ops Manual that covers such flights:

4.1.11 Flight with aircraft not on the AOC
The procedure for operating a flight on an aircraft that is not on the Air Operator Certificate is used for import, export or regulatory maintenance purposes. .......
C) Flight crew requirements
• Only Air Transat pilots will be assigned to these flights according to the Company policies and procedures.

If the aircraft was to be used by another operator while remaining for a short period of time registered to Air Transat, that is covered under CAR 203. Transport Canada maintains on online database of aircraft who are being operated under CAR 203 here:

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... &ts=L&ro=0

C-FTXZ is not listed.

There may be a legal method of doing this, but no one has explained it to me yet.

[ahramin]

I'm not so certain. If I have insurance for ferry flights, grab another pilot, jump in a commercially registered plane and fly it somewhere without an OC, what CAR am I breaking?

[ahramin]

If it was not under the OC, how did they get into RVSM airspace? There's so little traffic out there today, maybe they just phoned each FIR and got approval? What about MNPS?

Maybe I missed the requirement to operate under AT OC for RVSM?

An operator shall ensure that aeroplanes operated in RVSM airspace are equipped with:
Two independent altitude measurement systems;
An altitude alerting system;
An automatic altitude control system; and
A secondary surveillance radar (SSR) transponder with altitude reporting system that can be connected to the altitude measurement system in use for altitude keeping. (IR-OPS SPA.RVSM.110, EU-OPS 1.872)

Is it an ops spec? "An operator" means you need an OC no?

[boeingboy]

If the aircraft was to be used by another operator while remaining for a short period of time registered to Air Transat, that is covered under CAR 203. Transport Canada maintains on online database of aircraft who are being operated under CAR 203 here:

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... &ts=L&ro=0

C-FTXZ is not listed.

And it wouldn't be. CAR 203 only applies if AT was in legal custody and control of the aircraft. If the lease expired yesterday (as I expect)- then AT is out of the picture. The lessor now has 7 days to notify the Minister that it has reverted back to them and de-register it.

For a commercial aircraft to be flown, it must have an operator and it must be dispatched by the operator's dispatcher.

If the flight plan to this aircraft was supplied to ATC by Air Transat Dispatch, its an Air Transat Flight flown under the TSC Certificate. In which case Air Transat pilot must fly it.

Yes - your right - however the leaser no doubt has an OC and why not contract AT to do the flight plan? Nothing illegal about that, or maybe they did issue it. I don't know what their ops say and I don't know what AT's ops say. Again - If the lease had expired - then AT pilots could not fly it could they. There are fine details that could be included in the lease that no one knows about.

In any case - the odds that it was operated by Air Canada are next to impossible seeing as how the have no legal control over any AT assets yet.

There are too any details missing to say whether this was legal or not in the sense of your contract....however it can be done legally in the eyes of Transport Canada.