Did ACPA MEC vote themselves a raise while others are laid-off?

[snowcone]

I don't work at AC, but was sent this memo from a friend (who doesn't work at AC either), but does this mean that that ACPA leadership gave themselves raises to almost regular hours while members are out of work and on reduced hours?

If so, that is totally unacceptable and disgusting.

Anyone on the inside have inside knowledge?

[Mr. North]

YES! They most certainly did!

Nothing like junior members getting the shaft while their union leaders enrich themselves! Unbelievable really!!

YUL base rep listing for overtime while furlough calls went out to another 140!!

NO paid benefits on furlough!
NO say in surveys dictating YOUR future!

Excuse us while we line our pockets!

"We're all in this together" they say! Makes me sick!

[Captain Kirkk]

GOD BLESS ACPA

[fur1ough]

The memo was passed around anonymously to a bunch of people, pretty sure it's real. No answers from the MEC Chair yet....

[fur1ough]

Oh lets not forget the MEC member who is muzzled and lost his ACPA email. Not recalled, just muzzled. And no one still knows why.

I guess democracy in a union doesn't matter when you as the MEC Chair hold the deciding vote since everything is split 5/5 at all times. It's like a dictatorship.

[Dry Guy]

Isn't it because he was telling people to go on disability to avoid being laid off? I don't like ACPA either but you can't really say stuff like that to the members if you want the company to maintain any kind of positive relationship with the union.

[altiplano]

That's not what he said. He said if you're on gdip don't hurry back until you're fit, don't go to work if you're unfit.

[Dry Guy]

My mistake. That's slightly different.

[Eddietheeagle]

Absolutely disgusting, whatever happened to a Union that would fight tooth and nail for its members. All we have is an old boys club slowly sucking the life out of the pilot group. I’m a 5th year NB F/O working 15 days this month making barely enough to pay the bills.

[TheStig]

All of us have taken cuts, but we've also been working less, most of us much, much less. If the Union Reps are working 110% of their pre-covid duties you could make the argument that they don't deserve to take a cut. That said, this fails the taste test as it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. At the year end, we'd better not read about how ACPA's finances took a hit due to the lack of dues collected.

Absolutely disgusting, whatever happened to a Union that would fight tooth and nail for its members. All we have is an old boys club slowly sucking the life out of the pilot group. I’m a 5th year NB F/O working 15 days this month making barely enough to pay the bills.

Which NB type is that? The junior block holders on the 320 were blocked at: 8, 8 and 11 days in YUL,YVR, and YYZ in July. There were a handful of 220 FO's all blocked on reserve in YUL and YYZ, although there is one 14 day block in August. The MAX pilots were at 0, rouge was 0, and the EMJ's all left.

The MEC Chair is senior, as mentioned another of the Nationally elected reps has been given the boot, the other two I'd say are fairly junior, one possibly even junior to yourself. Attaching the 'old boys club' tag to this weakens your stance as it misses the mark.

[fur1ough]

All of us have taken cuts, but we've also been working less, most of us much, much less. If the Union Reps are working 110% of their pre-covid duties you could make the argument that they don't deserve to take a cut. That said, this fails the taste test as it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. At the year end, we'd better not read about how ACPA's finances took a hit due to the lack of dues collected.

Absolutely disgusting, whatever happened to a Union that would fight tooth and nail for its members. All we have is an old boys club slowly sucking the life out of the pilot group. I’m a 5th year NB F/O working 15 days this month making barely enough to pay the bills.

Which NB type is that? The junior block holders on the 320 were blocked at: 8, 8 and 11 days in YUL,YVR, and YYZ in July. There were a handful of 220 FO's all blocked on reserve in YUL and YYZ, although there is one 14 day block in August. The MAX pilots were at 0, rouge was 0, and the EMJ's all left.

The MEC Chair is senior, as mentioned another of the Nationally elected reps has been given the boot, the other two I'd say are fairly junior, one possibly even junior to yourself. Attaching the 'old boys club' tag to this weakens your stance as it misses the mark.

We have year one pilots taking home $2500 a month. There's NB pilots working 12-14+ days for shitty 55 hour blocks. Everyone else is on reserve for 18 days. @#$! this shit don't even pretend them making more is ok.

The MEC voted for the MOA. They should have to live with it.

So two national members are young ish. That's it. The rest are all must definitely an old boys club don't fool yourself.

[altiplano]

So two national members are young ish. That's it. The rest are all must definitely an old boys club don't fool yourself.

The "old boys club" is on the YVR and YUL LEC... YWG for that matter... not to mention some of the committee chairs/members they appoint.

Until these bases can elect someone that doesn't list for OT while guys are getting furloughed or has at least flown the line a bit over the last 8 years we're all fucked... Those bases combined have about the same number of members as YYZ with more than double the representation.

[fur1ough]

So two national members are young ish. That's it. The rest are all must definitely an old boys club don't fool yourself.

The "old boys club" is on the YVR and YUL LEC... YWG for that matter... not to mention some of the committee chairs/members they appoint.

Until these bases can elect someone that doesn't list for OT while guys are getting furloughed or has at least flown the line a bit over the last 8 years we're all fucked... Those bases combined have about the same number of members as YYZ with more than double the representation.

YVR Chair has been fully released for what like 7 years?

Hard to remember what it's like on the line when you don't fly the line.

There's a whole bunch of committee chairs that need to go.

Don't even get me started on YWG and how 60 pilots get a voting MEC member. They should just be happy they still have their flying club.

[Eddietheeagle]

All of us have taken cuts, but we've also been working less, most of us much, much less. If the Union Reps are working 110% of their pre-covid duties you could make the argument that they don't deserve to take a cut. That said, this fails the taste test as it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. At the year end, we'd better not read about how ACPA's finances took a hit due to the lack of dues collected.

Absolutely disgusting, whatever happened to a Union that would fight tooth and nail for its members. All we have is an old boys club slowly sucking the life out of the pilot group. I’m a 5th year NB F/O working 15 days this month making barely enough to pay the bills.

Which NB type is that? The junior block holders on the 320 were blocked at: 8, 8 and 11 days in YUL,YVR, and YYZ in July. There were a handful of 220 FO's all blocked on reserve in YUL and YYZ, although there is one 14 day block in August. The MAX pilots were at 0, rouge was 0, and the EMJ's all left.

The MEC Chair is senior, as mentioned another of the Nationally elected reps has been given the boot, the other two I'd say are fairly junior, one possibly even junior to yourself. Attaching the 'old boys club' tag to this weakens your stance as it misses the mark.

Weakens my stance as it missed the mark???@#$! man go have another Chardonnay and study some more airplane schedules. You are oblivious.... lots of us still out here working our asses off 12-15 day months for 55 hours pay....getting called for VO on days off all month long.

[RippleRock]

The YVR LEC Chair is as corrupt as they come. The YVR pilots seem to think he has their back though. The irony is that he has the Company's back first. The pilot group comes a sorry second to his support of collusional back-room dealing.

The MEC chair used to have the pilots back. No more. Plus he's an a$$hole and a borderline dictator.

The ACPA "elite" have muzzled an elected National MEC member. He has been labled a "disruptive" because he's SICK of the BS and is standing up for the contract and the pilot group at large.

SHAMEFUL!

[fur1ough]

I have lost all faith in ACPA as an Association in the last 6 months. Well to be honest I was already well on the way before COVID, but the MOA and the bullshit being strewn around with the nationally elected member, the rushed MOA, 55 hours for flat pay pilots, lack of furlough support and overall disorganization have solidified my feelings.

Anyone who thinks we're better off for having ACPA represent us over ALPA is either naive, uninformed or benefiting from the corruption and apathy of representation/enforcement of our contract. This latest MEMO to top up ACPA reps and committee chairs only reaffirms my opinion. At this point I'd even take CUPE since they seem to actually care about their members and aren't afraid to talk to the media and stand up for their members.

[altiplano]

We had the ALPA deal we wanted too... Group A, our own EVP, and Group C EVP no longer running ALPA Canada. We can get it back.

Either way, we need to punt ACPA, the office staff, the lawyers, the expensive office, and the broken constitution - which is largely ignored by leadership anyway.

ACPA is fucked if they think DSC top ups to 82 hours for Union "volunteers" cuts it. DSC is only supposed to make guys whole for missing flights up to DBM. Not +50% of DBM.

[fur1ough]

We had the ALPA deal we wanted too... Group A, our own EVP, and Group C EVP no longer running ALPA Canada. We can get it back.

Either way, we need to punt ACPA, the office staff, the lawyers, the expensive office, and the broken constitution - which is largely ignored by leadership anyway.

ACPA is fucked if they think DSC top ups to 82 hours for Union "volunteers" cuts it. DSC is only supposed to make guys whole for missing flights up to DBM. Not +50% of DBM.

We 100% can get it back, in fact I imagine the deal is still there just waiting for us to get our act together.

LRD needs to go, they are as useful as Wikipedia when it comes to contract enforcement or grievances. Scared of their own shadow is a phrase I've heard thrown around a number of times. The amount of money we spend at ACPA is unreal and unnecessary.

I'll happily pay minimal extra dues to be a member of the largest pilot union in the world, and the benefits that come with that.

Bolded the important bits for posterity.

People are talking, all the chat groups are up in arms about this memo and the MEC Chair and his merry band of 5 LEC reps know their days are numbered.

If only one of his 5 cronies would have the balls and backbone to join the other 5 reps and recall Mike McKay and vote in someone who can actually lead.

The question is how long after that until Mike walks across the isle to his cushy management job I'm sure he has waiting for him. 1 week? 1 month?

[RippleRock]

There's been something strange going on in ACPA for the past decade or so. The last real legit leader was JMB. All downhill from there. Something happens to those who run the association, MM is no exception, in fact with all the dictatorial MOU's, he's one of the worst. He loses no sleep over short changing the pilots he was elected to represent. There must be something twisting their brain in Ben Smith or CR's hot tub water.

They all end up as an arm of Flt Ops Management and it's the best way to describe ACPA. Representing the pilots group and upholding the contract is secondary at best. ACPA is ALWAYS the first to jump into the "burning building" to save the Corp. They don't seem to understand how little their "contribution" actually makes to the bottom line, while showing little regard for how disasterous the MOU's are to its own members.

I've lost hope there will be any legit change. One thing we can be sure of there is no shortage of Management titles awarded to the MEC Chair or negotiator that sells out the membership for the biggest dollar amount. It's like a bad re-run.

[rigpiggy]

well since it is no longer acpa vs alpa you would think it would be easy

[altiplano]

There's been something strange going on in ACPA for the past decade or so. The last real legit leader was JMB. All downhill from there. Something happens to those who run the association, MM is no exception, in fact with all the dictatorial MOU's, he's one of the worst. He loses no sleep over short changing the pilots he was elected to represent. There must be something twisting their brain in Ben Smith or CR's hot tub water.

They all end up as an arm of Flt Ops Management and it's the best way to describe ACPA. Representing the pilots group and upholding the contract is secondary at best. ACPA is ALWAYS the first to jump into the "burning building" to save the Corp. They don't seem to understand how little their "contribution" actually makes to the bottom line, while showing little regard for how disasterous the MOU's are to its own members.

I've lost hope there will be any legit change. One thing we can be sure of there is no shortage of Management titles awarded to the MEC Chair or negotiator that sells out the membership for the biggest dollar amount. It's like a bad re-run.

It's almost inexplicable to understand how some of the reps turn...

I heard in at least one case an individual has a business and they want to sell a service to the company, clearly a conflict of interest if they are trying to represent us while also lobbying to enrich themselves in a seperate deal.

I also heard that there are people in ACPA being paid for consulting to an outside 3rd party business, seems like something that should be disclosed when you are paid by anyone other than AC.

Maybe the MEC and other senior committee members should also disclose how much AC stock they have. We have previously had reports of individuals bragging over how much money they made on AC shares during a time coincident to representing ACPA in critical roles and moments wrt our collective agreement. So who were they looking out for?

[Hangry]

I don’t see how ALPA would be any different. It would be the same names over and over just like ACPA.

I see how ALPA’s toolbox helped WJ.

No thanks

[Squid]

Accountability for these guys and many of the committees has been questionable at best. It’s systemic with committee people as well always living away from the office fornicating the dog at home.

[fur1ough]

I don’t see how ALPA would be any different. It would be the same names over and over just like ACPA.

I see how ALPA’s toolbox helped WJ.

No thanks

You're right in saying if we don't change the people then not much else will change. But the fact we wouldn't be policing ourselves in my mind is a huge benefit.

At this point, ACPA has done nothing worth noting in the last few decades so I am all for trying something new.

[fur1ough]

I heard in at least one case an individual has a business and they want to sell a service to the company, clearly a conflict of interest if they are trying to represent us while also lobbying to enrich themselves in a seperate deal.

I've heard rumors of this as well.