Non Aviation Employers Don't Respect Pilot Experience

[flying4dollars]

Haha actually I know quite a few laid off pilots who are driving trucks. Seems like a decent gig if you can manage long road trips behind the wheel of something with no autopilot

[iflyforpie]

On a serious note, though.. I’ve seen it from the pilot side, too.

I’ve been a licensed AME for 16 years. Started working in the industry 20 years ago. You think any of that counted for knowing how to fly a plane? Nope. Systems knowledge, aerodynamics, regs, troubleshooting, human factors, situational awareness, integrity, attitude, humility, ability to deal with BS, hard work for low pay and the love of aviation? Forget it. All it really allowed me to do is be able to hang around so I was ready and connected for a flying position when one came along.

Many years ago I decided I had enough of aviation and was going to go into wind turbines. Skill sets were similar. The only positive lead I had was from a guy who used to fly Voodoos who was intrigued by my aviation experience. I wound up not taking the job.. (oh aviation.. I can’t stay mad at you) but believe me.. it’s not just pilots that have a hard time.

I started leaving my AME experience off my pilot resumes.

[Found]

I started leaving my AME experience off my pilot resumes.

iflyforpie just out of curiosity why? Wouldn't employers see a AME licence as an advantage?

[GoHomeLeg]

I started leaving my AME experience off my pilot resumes.

iflyforpie just out of curiosity why? Wouldn't employers see a AME licence as an advantage?

I still keep my AME experience and previous employers. At all three interviews for the three airlines I've worked for, the interviewers seem to be impressed.

[EPR]

https://www.goldengooseguide.com/post/w ... -2-million

[Ash Ketchum]

https://www.goldengooseguide.com/post/w ... -2-million

That's a well written article and I agree with what he says for the most part. I know some on here are mentioning that employers don't want to hire pilots because they will leave as soon as a recall comes which makes sense because it would hurt their business.

I am in the boat where if I found something decently paid which I didn't mind doing and gave me a reasonable lifestyle, I would most likely not return to flying when the recall did come. There is just too much uncertainty and the lifestyle is tough especially with a young family at home.

[iflyforpie]

I started leaving my AME experience off my pilot resumes.

iflyforpie just out of curiosity why? Wouldn't employers see a AME licence as an advantage?

They see it as an advantage if they are looking for an AME. Wasted my time on a couple of interviews where they asked the question “are you interested in doing wrenching?” and getting a PFO after I said I wasn’t.

I also didn’t have my ATPL. Even though I only needed a few hours to finish it off and had far more practical experience on transport category aircraft I was still behind every flight instructor two years out of training themselves if it was any company with an HR department.

I guess my point is that you still have to have the relevant experience. Non-relevant experience isn’t going to make up for it. It is either non-applicable or is seen as over qualifying you.

[Spitfire0511]

I definitely identify myself with some of the comments I read here. I have a degree in business and an MBA having worked on this field for close to 15 years. Last 6 years however I worked as a pilot being recently laid off from a major 705 operator. It looks like some employers see this as a disadvantage instead of something positive. They believe because I haven’t worked on my field for the last 6 years that I’ve lost my competences and abilities (like not longer being current on type)
The problem is also that the first stage of filtering the resumes is done by junior HR (nothing wrong with being young) who are unable to see beyond an specific job description and are unable to realize the added value of a candidate with additional or different background and what this could bring to the table. Most of the time they have 5 seconds to review a CV and when they see the word “Pilot” they put it aside and move on to the next Resume. Not easy but you have to be creative, work your network, use LinkedIn and other platforms, etc. Good luck and stay positive.

[ayseven]

Just speaking for me, my flying background was seen as important by some people in my work past. By itself, perhaps it isn't that obviously useful, but it tells somebody you were able to perform to a standard, and get pieces of paper to your name. It can work in reverse too, though: flying plus a lot of "education" does not equal an Air Canada interview, but perhaps some Chief Pilots are put off by that.

[Ash Ketchum]

I definitely identify myself with some of the comments I read here. I have a degree in business and an MBA having worked on this field for close to 15 years. Last 6 years however I worked as a pilot being recently laid off from a major 705 operator. It looks like some employers see this as a disadvantage instead of something positive. They believe because I haven’t worked on my field for the last 6 years that I’ve lost my competences and abilities (like not longer being current on type)
The problem is also that the first stage of filtering the resumes is done by junior HR (nothing wrong with being young) who are unable to see beyond an specific job description and are unable to realize the added value of a candidate with additional or different background and what this could bring to the table. Most of the time they have 5 seconds to review a CV and when they see the word “Pilot” they put it aside and move on to the next Resume. Not easy but you have to be creative, work your network, use LinkedIn and other platforms, etc. Good luck and stay positive.

That sums up my recent job search experience exactly. HR only cares about exact job titles when looking at work history. I have been out of my previous field of work for 5 years and would love to jump back into it even if I was getting a new grad salary. Instead I am getting rejected from interviews because they think I am not current in my field. I am starting to think I have to lie or go back to school to land a half decent job.

[fsantana]

I definitely identify myself with some of the comments I read here. I have a degree in business and an MBA having worked on this field for close to 15 years. Last 6 years however I worked as a pilot being recently laid off from a major 705 operator. It looks like some employers see this as a disadvantage instead of something positive. They believe because I haven’t worked on my field for the last 6 years that I’ve lost my competences and abilities (like not longer being current on type)
The problem is also that the first stage of filtering the resumes is done by junior HR (nothing wrong with being young) who are unable to see beyond an specific job description and are unable to realize the added value of a candidate with additional or different background and what this could bring to the table. Most of the time they have 5 seconds to review a CV and when they see the word “Pilot” they put it aside and move on to the next Resume. Not easy but you have to be creative, work your network, use LinkedIn and other platforms, etc. Good luck and stay positive.

There is one stage prior the junior HR.. is called ATS (applicant tracking system), which is the filter primary filter. If your resume doesn’t make it passed the ATS nobody gets your resume.. Indeed, Workday, and so forth are the ATS that filter your resumes if within the resume those system can’t find specific words, skills, etc... is then “accepted”, scored and sits on the pile with a high possibility of being rejected. Every Job description you see out there is a different resume you’ll need to write and send...

I have sent X amount of resumes in the last three weeks, the time spent rewording the document is incredible to just not receive an single email or call from anybody.. is frustrating, because like it was mentioned here, I also have an MBA having held positions such as Operations Manager, Finance Manager and General Manager and NOTHING...

So hang in there and don’t hang yourselves...

FS

[dhc#]

Post 2020 covid aviation career = "gig" economy job

[Gino Under]

American Airlines’ Rejection Of Pilots’ Early-Retirement Requests Angers Union

American Airlines and the Allied Pilots Association (APA) worked to limit the number of planned furloughs in response to lower demand, but the union says the airline opted for short-term financial gain over saving even more jobs by rejecting early-retirement requests from more than 200 pilots.

The Fort Worth-based carrier said Aug. 25 that it must furlough 1,609 pilots among 19,000 employees that will be let go in the coming weeks. The airline’s original figure was around 2,300 pilots, but 700 opted into one of several volunteer programs to help reduce required furloughs.

But American opted not to grant any early retirements, even though 204 eligible pilots submitted requests as part of the agreed-upon voluntary early-out program (VEOP). The decision means more pilots at the bottom of the seniority list are set to lose their jobs on or after Oct. 1.

“The fact that zero VEOPs were awarded is difficult for any rational person to comprehend, especially in light of senior management’s pledges to do everything in their power to avoid involuntary furloughs,” APA president Eric Ferguson wrote in a message to the pilots Aug. 25. “Both for those pilots denied their requested VEOP, and to those who may be furloughed as a result, it is nothing short of a gut punch.”

American SVP—flight operations Kimball Stone, addressing pilots in an Aug. 25 memo, acknowledged that the VEOP bidding “didn’t turn out as intended or have the desired result.”

Stone said the program, similar to one offered other workers, was extended to pilots to provide them more options. But unlike other employees, pilots have a mandatory retirement age of 65, creating the scenario where a pilot near retirement could cost the company more money via a VEOP than by continuing to work.

“We did not contemplate the high number of pilots with less than one year to retirement that bid for the VEOP, which not only negated the financial benefit of the VEOP, but in reality worsened the economic situation at a time where we can least afford additional expense,” Stone said.

Under the deal struck with APA, American could accept any number of eligible VEOP applicants from the pilot group, but it had to take them in order of seniority. The airline opted to take none.

“This is a disappointment as we all hoped that we could find a mutually acceptable solution with APA, and I believe there was opportunity to do things differently,” Stone said.

The union has a different take.

“They signed a deal they didn’t understand, and then they pulled the rip cord,” an APA spokesperson said.

American did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Aviation Week

Ferguson’s memo emphasized that even though some of the VEOPs many not have been economical on their own, the entire package would have helped the airline with long-term cost savings.

“Succinctly, management is foregoing tens of millions of dollars in savings that would accrue over time if all VEOPs were awarded,” he wrote. “To be clear, the choice to deny all VEOPs was that of management, alone,” Ferguson added.

Neither memo provided details about the VEOP requests.

The union in its memo indicated it would continue to work with the airline to reduce the furlough head count.

“At this stressful and critical juncture, management should reconsider its decision and change its heading into clearer skies,” Ferguson wrote. “To get there, management must entertain a new early-out option with guaranteed awards that offer real and continued furlough mitigation effects.”

Mayhem. It's everywhere we look. Hybernation of our airlines looks to be the more plausible solution with each passing day. If you turn away from aviation to find meaningful employment elsewhere to feed yourself and your family, you might just be saving yourself, your family, and your future.

All the best to those struggling with all of this. There's no easy way out.
Gino Under

[plhought]

[Bede]

I have been out of my previous field of work for 5 years and would love to jump back into it even if I was getting a new grad salary. Instead I am getting rejected from interviews because they think I am not current in my field. I am starting to think I have to lie or go back to school to land a half decent job.

Herein lies the problem with the argument that you should do some sort of post secondary as a "backup" career as is often argued on this forum. If you're not active in your field, any field, no one cares that you have an engineering degree, MBA, MD, etc from 20 years ago. If you want a backup income stream, learn to build pools, decks, basements, etc.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I have been out of my previous field of work for 5 years and would love to jump back into it even if I was getting a new grad salary. Instead I am getting rejected from interviews because they think I am not current in my field. I am starting to think I have to lie or go back to school to land a half decent job.

Herein lies the problem with the argument that you should do some sort of post secondary as a "backup" career as is often argued on this forum. If you're not active in your field, any field, no one cares that you have an engineering degree, MBA, MD, etc from 20 years ago. If you want a backup income stream, learn to build pools, decks, basements, etc.

....if you can find lumber!

[GoHomeLeg]

I have been out of my previous field of work for 5 years and would love to jump back into it even if I was getting a new grad salary. Instead I am getting rejected from interviews because they think I am not current in my field. I am starting to think I have to lie or go back to school to land a half decent job.

Herein lies the problem with the argument that you should do some sort of post secondary as a "backup" career as is often argued on this forum. If you're not active in your field, any field, no one cares that you have an engineering degree, MBA, MD, etc from 20 years ago. If you want a backup income stream, learn to build pools, decks, basements, etc.

Just like when a pilot leaves aviation then tries to get back in years later. Very few companies will take risk spending money to train you if you haven't flow in a few years.

I wonder what requalifing pilots is going to be like when we all return to work after this grounding.

[Ash Ketchum]

I have been out of my previous field of work for 5 years and would love to jump back into it even if I was getting a new grad salary. Instead I am getting rejected from interviews because they think I am not current in my field. I am starting to think I have to lie or go back to school to land a half decent job.

Herein lies the problem with the argument that you should do some sort of post secondary as a "backup" career as is often argued on this forum. If you're not active in your field, any field, no one cares that you have an engineering degree, MBA, MD, etc from 20 years ago. If you want a backup income stream, learn to build pools, decks, basements, etc.

That's very true. When I got laid off I thought that employers would be fighting over me with my computer engineering degree and 2 years of software development work experience however 400 job applications and a few interviews later I realize that's not the case.

I have spent the summer renovating my house and learning all the trades I could and am now branching off to start a seasonal hone maintenance business.

[flyingcanuck]

Ive applied to around 100 jobs and not a single word back. The job market these days seems ridiculous, 3-5 yrs experience getting you 18$ an hour in YYZ. Ive tried regular technical positions, coordinator, dispatcher, driver etc. Nothing. Ive spoken to some fellow pilots and few have said they have no want to find a different job until ours come back. So I'm in agreement with OP its difficult out there. Just have to keep applying im sure something will come eventually..

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

It's all in tweaking the CV for the potential employer AI to accept your resume and also a volume game. I've spent entire DAYS just firing as many applications as possible. I did about 3 rounds of heavy applications and got some come call backs and job offers. I am currently employed.

Nothing fancy at 14$ but enough to support my wife thru these hard times. In the same time I continue to apply everywhere in order to find something more lucrative.

FYI:

In the YUL greater area

I have a science college diploma from a cegep(in QC). Basically worth nothing..

Good luck fellow aviators. Don't quit and spam those fuckers inboxes!

[Dh8Classic]

For the young bucks, piloting experience could be an advantageous discussion point for some possibilities. Being energetic and being a fit guy that loaded up the aircraft all day would be well looked upon.

https://sugardating.international/sm?ut ... aff_sub5=b

Sounds like good fun.

Feel free to give any details of your experience with this.

[flyingcanuck]

Reviving this thread to ask, who's gotten a non flying job, any leads or ideas? I don't know what it is, being furloughed or just being in a different industry. There has to be some jobs that look favourably on us?

[Ash Ketchum]

Reviving this thread to ask, who's gotten a non flying job, any leads or ideas? I don't know what it is, being furloughed or just being in a different industry. There has to be some jobs that look favourably on us?

I originally started the thread. I was a furloughed regional captain. I was able to find a job in my previous career in the technology industry as an engineer a few weeks ago. I had to remove any trace of aviation from my resume and never mentioned it during interviews. Instead I said that I spent the past 5 years working as an independent consultant (I did some part time consulting work while flying).

It took me months to figure that out. It seems employers either think that we are not qualified or over qualified for other jobs. I think HR doesn't realize that as pilots we have alot to offer other industries and alot of our skills can translate into non flying work.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I'm on CEWS from a 705 operator and I just did an interview today for a casual part-time position at a Sunglass Hut. I got offered the job at the end of the interview. Pay is minimum wage and it's the only interview I've had so far out of about 20-30 resumes sent out to non-aviation jobs.

[FOD_Vacuum]

It took a few months and several resumes sent out before landing a job at FedEx as courier. It’s nothing fancy but fits my situation well. $19 an hr, part time permanent with full health benefits after three months I believe as well as flight benefits (interline at 6 months) which is great. Driving around by your own delivering and picking up packages kills the day and gets some money into my account. $2500 every year for schooling paid for by them so planning to get my class 3/1 drivers license instead of paying $1800 out of my own pocket.

They have hired a bunch of other 705 pilots over the last little while-the e commerce boom combined with covid and Christmas is making FedEx scramble for drivers before amazon or ups swoops them up.